Crazymank
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Anthony Roberts: Getting back on track here…
Anon: To get back to the point, because I rambled a hell of a lot there, I started off as a user, realized, “holy shit, I can buy this crap at 1/10th of what it is costing me around here if I go online,” and started supplying a lot of my area. I had a few sources I went through at first, but for a variety of reasons I had to eliminate the middleman. I didn’t get too much into those reasons, but I will summarize them by saying that along with money and youth comes bad decisions, often drug use, and a lot of laziness. I would have LIKED to keep my suppliers between Mexico and me. I was making enough money. I never wanted to go to Mexico, much less meet anyone of any criminal stature out there. To me, that spelled trouble. I didn’t want to be the guy crossing the border and doing business directly with anyone – a Granero, a salesman, or a distributor. But, it became a necessity, and when the owner of a multi-million dollar pharmaceutical company asks your opinion in relation to product R&D, you are flattered. You meet with him. You love the free t-shirts and watches and drinks and women. You eat it up. Remember, Ttokkyo was at one point, before all this shit, a very legit and respectable business. They had a large product line and produced a huge variety of medications, including Ketamine.
It all happened very fast. I went from making $500 a week to $10k a week within a few months, selling only anabolics and androgens. I sold Clomid or some bullshit ancilliary as a favor once in a while, but there was no demand for anti-estrogens or the like. Back then, I made as much selling gear as many mid-level coke and heroin dealers make. I can attribute it almost entirely to being in the right place at the right time and having some kind of perverted urge to be a bad guy. Add to the equation the fact that I have a good word, always paid my debts on time and in full, can speak intelligently about the subject, and made sure everyone was getting a cut of whatever was made. I made the people around me rich. They wanted me to succeed. Obviously. Everyone connected to me was busier than they could handle with orders and crossing and shipping and selling and celebrating. It was a hell of a lot of fun, back then. It grew like drunken wildfire.
Anthony Roberts: Ok...so you were involved with the biggest name in steroids at the time...what was that like?
Anon: It was like any other business engagement, really. Well, I say that now, but at the time it was a lot of shady shit in rooms packed with steroid boxes and chicken crates as well as fancy conference rooms and bodyguards. Once I started working with them directly, I had to have bodyguards. People were kidnapped on a regular basis, and I was starting to get recognized around the area. I knew they were sizing me up and it worried me a little, but the guy who owned a Granero and took care of much of my needs at the time set me up with some sort of organization that provided protection. A lot of the bodyguards were young, and I always assumed they had guns, but I never saw them and never asked to. Guns rarely came into play for me, and when they did, it was on this side of the border with one notable exception where a good dude was killed.
Hell, money is money, right? Sell coke or sell widgets… if you sell enough of them people are going to target you. I was talking to a guy the other day who got robbed and had his wife kidnapped for memory chips, and this was in the United States. People will kill you for money, and money is what the Feds follow and are most interested in, if you ask me.
Anthony Roberts: So at this point, you were pretty much “the man” right?
Anon: Like I said before, having a hotline to Ttokkyo was cool. It had a lot of perks. Women, money, VIP treatment, and I went almost six years without even thinking about working. What we did was work, but it wasn’t work like regular people do. It was fun, and the money was play money. You could go into any store and get virtually anything you wanted. I had three luxury cars and two trucks. I didn’t have any place to park them. I had two Rolexes and only one wrist. I had a closet full of $300 shirts and $400 shoes. I had whatever I wanted. I don’t know how to really explain what it was like. It was very stressful. I lived online, watching tracking results and being scared to death of seeing “Status: Exception.” I was on drugs of various sorts (I could get whatever dope I wanted, so I tried different things and liked some quite a bit), and I grew increasingly paranoid. I was a mess. I was on so many steroids that I honestly couldn’t say what I was on at any given time. I've used every single anabolic agent I know of besides some of the more recent things like esterless EQ and whatever. It was really bad for me physically and mentally while feeling pretty fucking amazing physically and mentally. I slept a lot. I was never home. I don’t know how those two things are true at the same time, but they were. I was on call 24 hours a day, because I had business partners all over the world and God forbid I would miss a call that might make me a couple grand.
Anthony Roberts: Alright…I’m starting to get the picture…but exactly did you do with them or for Ttokkyo?
Anon: This is a bit of a touchy question, since there are documents out there stating what I did for them and I wouldn’t want to give anyone the idea that they didn’t have the complete picture. I’ll tell you what my buddy did. My buddy was a hand-to-hand dealer, largely. He was Ttokkyo’s 2nd biggest customer through this Granero, and he had everything delivered to him, preferring to do things face to face. Ttokkyo had this neat little club you could join if you spent enough money with the Granero and they liked you well enough. Orders sent to Ttokkyo over the web went to the Granero. If the order was from America, the customer got an email saying that they should contact [email protected] or whatever. Soandso would be a guy like my buddy, who would have a $1000 minimum order or something like that and would have your order shipped directly from the guys in Mexico. For example, I know a guy who sat in NY and took orders sent to Ttokkyo. He had an account with the Granero. Once he had enough orders, he sent an email to a guy in Mexico detailing what product should go to what address. The Mexicans would cross the shit and mail it. The guy sitting in NY never saw the boxes. Just the money. It was a sweet gig if you could get it and you know, didn’t mind being an international drug smuggler, dealer, whatever.
Anthony Roberts: I suppose it’s time for the million dollar question. What was, in your opinion, the cause for their downfall?
Anon: This is complex. I will say that a major contributor to their downfall will be a major contributor to the downfall of the powder suppliers, GenSci, and the like. (Note from Anthony Roberts: This article was written before GenSci went down!) They marketed towards Americans. You just can’t do that. That is the thumbing of the nose that I was talking about. They had an English version of their website and spoke of the effects of EQ and dosing of EQ in humans. We all know, there is not one product produced anywhere in the world that is boldenone-based and intended for use in humans. They built their website meta-tags around words like “Special K” and other things that were clearly designed to bring a specific type of traffic to their site. They had established a whole enterprise designed to cross and sell illegal drugs to Americans.
And they made a LOT of money.
Anthony Roberts: Same old story I suppose. Do you think that selling recreational drugs like K was the beginning of the end for Ttokkyo?
Anon: With Ketamine, you have a whole new audience and the people involved with club drugs are involved with things like E and whatever. These things have major penalties attached to them. Yeah, I know, the penalty for K is that same as the penalty for juice, and that penalty isn’t much. You're missing the point and don’t understand how this shit works.
I didn’t get charged for this in the end, but one of my drivers got pulled over with 16,000 bottles of K. That is not a big deal when it comes to the amount of drug. Yeah, it was the largest seizure of K ever in the United States, but still, it was not Class I or anything like that. It had a 5 year maximum.
What kicks you in the ass is the other charges that come. If you spend money on drugs, you’re laundering money. Money laundering charges are harsh. And you get the CCE (Continuing Criminal Enterprise) charges thrown at you that carry a 20 year mandatory or something like that. I forget the exact figures, thank God. And you get aiding and abetting. And you get Conspiracy to Distribute and Conspiracy to Launder Money, Conspiracy to this, that, the other thing.
Conspiracy is when two or more people decide to break the law and make any steps towards that end. We can sit in front of a bank and talk about robbing it, but that’s bullshit. That’s nothing. As soon as I buy a ski mask though, we are both guilty of the entire conspiracy. So is the guy who lent me the $5 to buy the ski mask, if he knew what we were doing. So everyone from the crosser to the guy who is selling 10 bottles at a time down the line and everyone in between is a “spoke on the wheel” where the wheel is the conspiracy.
And heresy is admissible in Federal Court. A dude who knew the kind of car I drove was able to get me indicted on heresy. He said the K was mine. They asked what he knew about me. He didn’t know my name. He just knew where I was from and what I drove. They asked who got him the driving job. He gave up his buddy. Based on what his buddy said, which was that it was mine- they came and got me. It was all heresy. They had no hard evidence. Just circumstantial shit that would never hold up in state court.
So based on what two guys said… two guys who lives thousands of miles away from me and had none of my real information, they were able to hit me with an 11 count indictment for those bottles. 5 year max? Please. I was looking at 30-plus years once you figured in the money charges and CCE charges. Look this shit up. Check out the Federal Sentencing Guidelines and the Sentencing Grid. Its no joke. And a guy like Bruce who owns guns in doubly fucked because even if they are legal, you get bumped up 3 levels for each gun you have. He had 10? Something like that? That is 30 levels. A level 30 charge in and of itself is 25 years or so.
Anthony Roberts: So federal charges are some rough shit, huh?
Anon: This isn’t the place for a long discussion on Federal sentencing, but basically they use a grid. Your offense is a designated level of severity. That is your base offense level. You get 3 levels off for pleading guilty, up to 5 more for cooperating, and 3 added if you are a ringleader. These are upward and downward departures. A base offense level of 12 or whatever, something small that means 12 months in jail, can easily become a level 28 with the addition of a ringleader departure, a gun departure, and a couple departures for being near a school or whatever. The money charges compound your base offense level and that level 12 becomes a level 22 very quickly. Your little box of 200 Deca amps becomes 120 months in jail before you even know what happened. I didn’t realize any of this shit. Who does, until it is too late? Oh yeah, and if you talk about a deal in your car, they get the car. And if you wife was around, they will charge her with conspiracy just to put pressure on you to roll. Or they will take your kids. Or they will charge your Mom. They will do whatever they have to do to put major pressure on you because lots of the time they DON’T want you but they will rip your ass open to get the guy that they do want. It makes me laugh when people think they are safe because they are only buying small amounts and say “they don’t go DOWN the ladder.” Yeah, they do. All the time. They go down the ladder to get a firm foothold and move up the ladder.
Anthony Roberts: Yeah…I got rolled on when I went to prison for Ecstacy. I had 118 tabs, and the guy they caught had 20 hits and rolled on me right away. He would have done no time, instead I was sentenced to 13 months, on possession with no intent to deal for a first time non-violent offence, and got out with doing half of that…
Anon: People roll like logs. I honestly don’t blame them. I wouldn’t do 15 years for [email protected] no matter what. Fuck Swole. I did under 2 years and I lost family while I was in there. Do you know how much it sucks to hear your family cry, “Why can’t you be here? We need you!” Do you know how much it sucks to miss your daughter’s first birthday? How much it hurts to lose a grandparent or a parent while locked up? You think anyone is going to do that because it’s the right thing to do? Its not the right fucking thing to do, unless you are a damn asshole.
With that being so perfectly fucking obvious, it should be clear that unless you are prepared to make the decision to turn everyone you care about in, you have no business selling steroids in modern-day America. There is too much money in it.
And for Ttokkyo, that money came largely from Ketamine. My buddy got bottles of K for $8 each and sold them for $32 each by the 10,000. He could do this every 2 weeks, limited only by how long it takes to drive across the country and back. After expenses, that equals around a quarter million dollars profit a month. Now, we are talking real money. This gets the attention of everyone. This is serious money, and this isn’t counting the little shit, the $30k deals you are making here and there because you sent a few boxes to someone direct, or decided to tell people that the peso went up in value and you need an extra $2 a bottle this time, while it really went down and you were saving a buck and the crosser gave you a discount. There was a ton of money to be made in Ketamine.
Did I mention that I never wanted to sell K? I didn’t. But I sold 1000 bottles one time, make something like $20k in an hour, and decided that it might be worth doing some K deals for a while.
Anthony Roberts: So everyone was making money hand over fist, right?
Anon: Ttokkyo saw more money than me and my buddy combined, times ten. They were rocking. And when money like that is up for grabs and the people making it are being active assholes, there is going to be trouble. They were out there on the net, taking orders from everyone, making stupid people rich and people were getting murdered over it.
Anthony Roberts: So how did you get pinched?
Anon: They picked me up first. I was set up pretty nicely by a fella that went by the name of DB and his buddy Leroy. Leroy is running around Thailand now, from what I heard on the boards. I don’t go on the boards much anymore, but when I got out I did visit the ones that were left and noticed a post about this. Of course, I don’t talk to anyone in those circles anymore. Why would I? They are all a bunch of “bros” that fuck each other over and they have no idea of loyalty. These people posting how Satchboogie or whoever is such a good dude, he is their buddy, are retards. When it comes down to it, you are money. You are nothing to him or any dealer. Yeah, you can chill and have some drinks, but they will roll on you in a second and you can’t blame them for it because you would too. Say all you want that you wouldn’t. I know better, and everyone who has been there knows better.
I was lucky in that I pled guilty right off the bat and so they used my guilty plea to leverage their case against other codefendants. I didn’t have to testify or mention anyone to anyone. I said that I did it and the other guys said everything else. Who cares? Once you go away there is no loyalty and nobody rewards anything. The Sopranos is bullshit. The Godfather is outdated. Dudes get life for a bag of crack, first offense, and that’s fucking it.
Anthony Roberts: So you are saying that the “Ttokkyo Steroid bust” was actually a recreational drug bust? It was all about the K?
Anon: The K, the active solicitation of American business, and the money involved was too much for the USG to ignore. It wasn’t K. It was the combination of everything. Cheminova sold a ton of K and they never had executives indicted. Ttokkyo packaged everything really nicely for resale in America and that did them in. At one point they sold a 50 ml bottle that was cheap as balls, but they discontinued it because the fact is, you can’t fit one of those into your pocket and bring it into the club. They were all about making money off of Americans. Sure, some of us made a lot of money (some made a LOT of money) selling within Mexico itself as well. The real cash was with the gringos.
Anthony Roberts: So if you get indicted…
Anon: I spoke to this a bit already, but in summation, if you get indicted, you will go to jail. The Feds have a 98 percent conviction rate. They don’t lose. And if you go to jail, you will never be the same. You can’t spend drug money on a house without breaking a million other laws. You can’t beat the government. Now that they have the Patriot Act, they can do whatever they want. Overseas servers don’t mean shit. You think Zimbabwe won’t give the DEA the keys to a server locked in some office somewhere? You think China won’t help out? You think the Chinese or French government isn’t as interested in getting some of this money as the US government is? Fuck privacy. There is none. I have personally seen PGP decoded that should not have been able to be decoded. All the boards have DEA on them. A few that I know of are controlled by the DEA. One time, the DEA called this one board a “branch office” in front of me, because they had so many agents on it..
Anthony Roberts: So I take it you wouldn’t recommend being a steroid dealer as a career choice, huh?
Anon: If you want to sell steroids then you have to be a rinky dink $3000 a week guy. That isn’t worth it to me, personally. I can make that kind of money with a job. If you want to sell roids and make real money, you are playing with the US government now, and they make the rules as they go. You’ve seen what they do the POWs. You’ve seen what they do to suspected terrorists. You don’t get a phone call when you go to jail and they don’t have to let you talk to a lawyer until you go to court. You disappear. They own your ass. You have no rights and you cannot hope to win at trial. You are going to plead guilty. You are going to lose.
The Federal Justice system is totally different than the state system. The state I live in could never have touched me. I knew that. They knew that. It didn’t matter. Along came the Feds with heresy and circumstantial evidence (admissible in Federal court) and they indicted me based on some shit that wouldn’t have held up in state court for a second. I was fucked from day one and there is no way around it. Once the Feds decide that you are interesting because either you are doing something noteworthy or you know someone who is doing someone noteworthy, you are on their radar. You might do a deal and get pulled over afterwards. They take your license, look at it, and let you go. A year later they kick down your door. They have seven years to come for you. Sometimes, they wait seven years. They took your license to prove that it was you in 1998 who was in Jimmy’s house. In 2004, they come and get you because with your testimony, they can finally get Jimmy. If you don’t testify, your wife is going to jail for 36 months and youre going for 120. You haven’t even talked to Jimmy in 2 years. You don’t even remember being pulled over. You haven’t even been selling drugs for 18 months.
Bye bye. They don’t give a fuck. Just like you gotta eat, so do they.
Anthony Roberts: So how was your time in the can?
Anon: Jail sucks. It’s no fun. I was in a pretty cushy place for a lot of my sentence, and it still sucked. Here’s a message to the guy(s) who rolled on me: Phil, I hope you know I know the truth now. You didn’t have to tell on me. You chose to. You weren’t looking at 15 years. You were looking at maybe one. You chose to fuck me and my family and everyone who I care and cares about me. You reached out to me and I told you there were no hard feelings. I didn’t know the truth. Now I do, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Be more ashamed knowing that I am kicking ass now, making $130k a year legally, driving a brand new BMW that cannot be seized because is all legal. Be most ashamed because you took me away from people who needed me. These were good people who never did anything wrong. These were people who knew nothing about anything criminal or illicit. You hurt them. Yes, I am to blame as well, but you didn’t need to hurt as many as you did. You are a pussy, and you will have to live with the knowledge that you are a cunt, in your heart, a cunt. At your core, there is a cunt. You too, Leroy.
Anthony Roberts: What do you think about the months following Ttokkyo's fall?
Anon: During the months following Ttokkyo’s fall, I was kind of busy with legal stuff. I didn’t get to really observe anything happening. All I know is what I have heard since. The major people in Ttokkyo who were busted had a lot of good info on the scene down south. Its no wonder Gear Grinder happened. Its no wonder Mexico made Brovel go back to making low dose testosterone. Its no wonder all those people got arrested. Frankly, I’m surprised it wasn’t a bigger event. But bigger events are coming, because people are getting even more stupid. I thought I'd get out of jail and see people acting smarter, but its almost the reverse. Look at any of the boards and the fucking sponsorships! I can’t believe they have drug dealers as sponsors. All you guys who own boards sponsored by drug dealers or anyone who furthers a conspiracy, you're liable to be indicted. If you own a server that a reasonable person would know illegal activity is taking place on, you are liable to be indicted to conspiracy towards that illegal activity. Its not enough to say “law enforcement cannot come in” – are you kidding me?
And Rick Collins is a joke. The dude doesn’t win cases. If you get a state charge, get a good local attorney. DO NOT fly in some fancy pants from another state. The judge will have a hard on for you. Steroids are an illegal drug like any other illegal drug, and you just need a good local lawyer. If you get a Fed charge, you are just as well off with a good appointed lawyer. Its going to be about your plea bargain, not trial strategy.
(From Anthony Roberts: I did not want to bash Rick here, but I agreed to let this go uncensored.)
Anthony Roberts: Do you see this Rise/Fall pattern happening again?
Anon: As I already said: yep. Its classic drug economics; one rises to fill a need and falls. Another comes along. The funny thing is that the stupidity also repeats itself. Like the aforementioned sponsorships on the boards and the powder distributors and the GenSci’s of the world, this shit doesn’t stop. Its endless. Greed will never die, I guess.
Anthony Roberts: Do you think the Mexican scene is still alive?
Anon: It’s limping along. There are UG labs down there with the advantage of being able to operate a little more freely and try to present themselves as legit. People always said Mexican gear was bathtub brew. Well, they are getting what they wanted. There are a couple companies down there now making things that look like they are from someplace else and might even have a corresponding business entity someplace else, but are really being made my Jose and Juan Carlos in the back of a tortilla factory.
Brovel and Tornel are still around, but they are behaving themselves now.
It’s not the place it was. You can still get everything down there that you could want, but in jail they say that the inmates always ruin everything for the inmates. In the steroid world, the industry always ruins everything for the industry.
Anthony Roberts: Would you do it over, knowing what you know now?
Anon: Beautiful, classic question here, Anthony.
Knowing what I know now, no. I would not. I wasted six or so years of my life. I got to know a lot about steroids. So what? What good is that unless you’re selling steroids? So I got to drive fancy cars and be with all sorts of women and spend $10k a day. I got to ride in helicopters and play Scarface.
Yay. Now what? I was making money just to make money. I couldn’t spend it all.
I’m glad I know what I now know, and I am thankful that I didn’t get killed or kill anyone, and I am glad that I recognize the shame in humankind, and I am very thankful that I know what is important in life. Most of all, I am ashamed that I did not know it before.
My life and lifestyle was killing me. This time in jail and being faced with legal trouble has given me a new lease on life, and I have a life that I love dearly. I would die or kill for the life that I have now. It’s quite a switch.
But would I ever put the people I love through this again? No. I am proud that there is not one person out there, criminal or upstanding citizen, who will say anything bad about me. I am a really good friend to have and I was there for buddies who got locked up when nobody was there for me. But still, I can never forgive myself for what I did. I have no moral problems with myself for selling drugs. I have major problems with myself for smothering my lucidity of thought.
I would rather die than have my bumbling hand cause pain to people I love again.
Really, I hold no grudges against anyone who told on me. For one, I don’t have the energy and don’t want to spend my time thinking about you. For two, you know who you are. You know what you did. So does whatever God you pray to. And if you don’t pray to a God, and even if your God sides with you, you will have a little boy one day of your own. You might already. He will look up at you and you’ll be able to tell how much he loves you, admires you, thinks the world of you.
And inside, you will know what a cunt you are and how unworthy you are of his admiration.
That is enough for me. I am sorry that you have to live that way for the rest of your life, until the day you die, unable to take back your cowardice and sloth.
I have to go back to work now. Please, everyone, be safe. I fully support your right to manipulate your body in any way you choose and I fully recognize that there is a demand for drug dealers. If you choose to be one, please do your research first. Just like we all told newbies on the boards to go do a little reading first, I’m telling you that if you decide to go into the drug business, do your due diligence.
And then look at your family and ask yourself if it is worth losing them for. I know I would rather have my Father back than ten million dollars.
And then, when you do it anyhow and get your empty vials and sterile oil or make that 1000 amp purchase that is being sent to the abandoned house down the street, make sure you bury as much money as you spend, because you’ll need it when you get out.
I am tired now. I hope someone somewhere got something good from this.
Peace.
Anthony Roberts: Thank you for your time and giving us all the benefit of your experience
Anon: To get back to the point, because I rambled a hell of a lot there, I started off as a user, realized, “holy shit, I can buy this crap at 1/10th of what it is costing me around here if I go online,” and started supplying a lot of my area. I had a few sources I went through at first, but for a variety of reasons I had to eliminate the middleman. I didn’t get too much into those reasons, but I will summarize them by saying that along with money and youth comes bad decisions, often drug use, and a lot of laziness. I would have LIKED to keep my suppliers between Mexico and me. I was making enough money. I never wanted to go to Mexico, much less meet anyone of any criminal stature out there. To me, that spelled trouble. I didn’t want to be the guy crossing the border and doing business directly with anyone – a Granero, a salesman, or a distributor. But, it became a necessity, and when the owner of a multi-million dollar pharmaceutical company asks your opinion in relation to product R&D, you are flattered. You meet with him. You love the free t-shirts and watches and drinks and women. You eat it up. Remember, Ttokkyo was at one point, before all this shit, a very legit and respectable business. They had a large product line and produced a huge variety of medications, including Ketamine.
It all happened very fast. I went from making $500 a week to $10k a week within a few months, selling only anabolics and androgens. I sold Clomid or some bullshit ancilliary as a favor once in a while, but there was no demand for anti-estrogens or the like. Back then, I made as much selling gear as many mid-level coke and heroin dealers make. I can attribute it almost entirely to being in the right place at the right time and having some kind of perverted urge to be a bad guy. Add to the equation the fact that I have a good word, always paid my debts on time and in full, can speak intelligently about the subject, and made sure everyone was getting a cut of whatever was made. I made the people around me rich. They wanted me to succeed. Obviously. Everyone connected to me was busier than they could handle with orders and crossing and shipping and selling and celebrating. It was a hell of a lot of fun, back then. It grew like drunken wildfire.
Anthony Roberts: Ok...so you were involved with the biggest name in steroids at the time...what was that like?
Anon: It was like any other business engagement, really. Well, I say that now, but at the time it was a lot of shady shit in rooms packed with steroid boxes and chicken crates as well as fancy conference rooms and bodyguards. Once I started working with them directly, I had to have bodyguards. People were kidnapped on a regular basis, and I was starting to get recognized around the area. I knew they were sizing me up and it worried me a little, but the guy who owned a Granero and took care of much of my needs at the time set me up with some sort of organization that provided protection. A lot of the bodyguards were young, and I always assumed they had guns, but I never saw them and never asked to. Guns rarely came into play for me, and when they did, it was on this side of the border with one notable exception where a good dude was killed.
Hell, money is money, right? Sell coke or sell widgets… if you sell enough of them people are going to target you. I was talking to a guy the other day who got robbed and had his wife kidnapped for memory chips, and this was in the United States. People will kill you for money, and money is what the Feds follow and are most interested in, if you ask me.
Anthony Roberts: So at this point, you were pretty much “the man” right?
Anon: Like I said before, having a hotline to Ttokkyo was cool. It had a lot of perks. Women, money, VIP treatment, and I went almost six years without even thinking about working. What we did was work, but it wasn’t work like regular people do. It was fun, and the money was play money. You could go into any store and get virtually anything you wanted. I had three luxury cars and two trucks. I didn’t have any place to park them. I had two Rolexes and only one wrist. I had a closet full of $300 shirts and $400 shoes. I had whatever I wanted. I don’t know how to really explain what it was like. It was very stressful. I lived online, watching tracking results and being scared to death of seeing “Status: Exception.” I was on drugs of various sorts (I could get whatever dope I wanted, so I tried different things and liked some quite a bit), and I grew increasingly paranoid. I was a mess. I was on so many steroids that I honestly couldn’t say what I was on at any given time. I've used every single anabolic agent I know of besides some of the more recent things like esterless EQ and whatever. It was really bad for me physically and mentally while feeling pretty fucking amazing physically and mentally. I slept a lot. I was never home. I don’t know how those two things are true at the same time, but they were. I was on call 24 hours a day, because I had business partners all over the world and God forbid I would miss a call that might make me a couple grand.
Anthony Roberts: Alright…I’m starting to get the picture…but exactly did you do with them or for Ttokkyo?
Anon: This is a bit of a touchy question, since there are documents out there stating what I did for them and I wouldn’t want to give anyone the idea that they didn’t have the complete picture. I’ll tell you what my buddy did. My buddy was a hand-to-hand dealer, largely. He was Ttokkyo’s 2nd biggest customer through this Granero, and he had everything delivered to him, preferring to do things face to face. Ttokkyo had this neat little club you could join if you spent enough money with the Granero and they liked you well enough. Orders sent to Ttokkyo over the web went to the Granero. If the order was from America, the customer got an email saying that they should contact [email protected] or whatever. Soandso would be a guy like my buddy, who would have a $1000 minimum order or something like that and would have your order shipped directly from the guys in Mexico. For example, I know a guy who sat in NY and took orders sent to Ttokkyo. He had an account with the Granero. Once he had enough orders, he sent an email to a guy in Mexico detailing what product should go to what address. The Mexicans would cross the shit and mail it. The guy sitting in NY never saw the boxes. Just the money. It was a sweet gig if you could get it and you know, didn’t mind being an international drug smuggler, dealer, whatever.
Anthony Roberts: I suppose it’s time for the million dollar question. What was, in your opinion, the cause for their downfall?
Anon: This is complex. I will say that a major contributor to their downfall will be a major contributor to the downfall of the powder suppliers, GenSci, and the like. (Note from Anthony Roberts: This article was written before GenSci went down!) They marketed towards Americans. You just can’t do that. That is the thumbing of the nose that I was talking about. They had an English version of their website and spoke of the effects of EQ and dosing of EQ in humans. We all know, there is not one product produced anywhere in the world that is boldenone-based and intended for use in humans. They built their website meta-tags around words like “Special K” and other things that were clearly designed to bring a specific type of traffic to their site. They had established a whole enterprise designed to cross and sell illegal drugs to Americans.
And they made a LOT of money.
Anthony Roberts: Same old story I suppose. Do you think that selling recreational drugs like K was the beginning of the end for Ttokkyo?
Anon: With Ketamine, you have a whole new audience and the people involved with club drugs are involved with things like E and whatever. These things have major penalties attached to them. Yeah, I know, the penalty for K is that same as the penalty for juice, and that penalty isn’t much. You're missing the point and don’t understand how this shit works.
I didn’t get charged for this in the end, but one of my drivers got pulled over with 16,000 bottles of K. That is not a big deal when it comes to the amount of drug. Yeah, it was the largest seizure of K ever in the United States, but still, it was not Class I or anything like that. It had a 5 year maximum.
What kicks you in the ass is the other charges that come. If you spend money on drugs, you’re laundering money. Money laundering charges are harsh. And you get the CCE (Continuing Criminal Enterprise) charges thrown at you that carry a 20 year mandatory or something like that. I forget the exact figures, thank God. And you get aiding and abetting. And you get Conspiracy to Distribute and Conspiracy to Launder Money, Conspiracy to this, that, the other thing.
Conspiracy is when two or more people decide to break the law and make any steps towards that end. We can sit in front of a bank and talk about robbing it, but that’s bullshit. That’s nothing. As soon as I buy a ski mask though, we are both guilty of the entire conspiracy. So is the guy who lent me the $5 to buy the ski mask, if he knew what we were doing. So everyone from the crosser to the guy who is selling 10 bottles at a time down the line and everyone in between is a “spoke on the wheel” where the wheel is the conspiracy.
And heresy is admissible in Federal Court. A dude who knew the kind of car I drove was able to get me indicted on heresy. He said the K was mine. They asked what he knew about me. He didn’t know my name. He just knew where I was from and what I drove. They asked who got him the driving job. He gave up his buddy. Based on what his buddy said, which was that it was mine- they came and got me. It was all heresy. They had no hard evidence. Just circumstantial shit that would never hold up in state court.
So based on what two guys said… two guys who lives thousands of miles away from me and had none of my real information, they were able to hit me with an 11 count indictment for those bottles. 5 year max? Please. I was looking at 30-plus years once you figured in the money charges and CCE charges. Look this shit up. Check out the Federal Sentencing Guidelines and the Sentencing Grid. Its no joke. And a guy like Bruce who owns guns in doubly fucked because even if they are legal, you get bumped up 3 levels for each gun you have. He had 10? Something like that? That is 30 levels. A level 30 charge in and of itself is 25 years or so.
Anthony Roberts: So federal charges are some rough shit, huh?
Anon: This isn’t the place for a long discussion on Federal sentencing, but basically they use a grid. Your offense is a designated level of severity. That is your base offense level. You get 3 levels off for pleading guilty, up to 5 more for cooperating, and 3 added if you are a ringleader. These are upward and downward departures. A base offense level of 12 or whatever, something small that means 12 months in jail, can easily become a level 28 with the addition of a ringleader departure, a gun departure, and a couple departures for being near a school or whatever. The money charges compound your base offense level and that level 12 becomes a level 22 very quickly. Your little box of 200 Deca amps becomes 120 months in jail before you even know what happened. I didn’t realize any of this shit. Who does, until it is too late? Oh yeah, and if you talk about a deal in your car, they get the car. And if you wife was around, they will charge her with conspiracy just to put pressure on you to roll. Or they will take your kids. Or they will charge your Mom. They will do whatever they have to do to put major pressure on you because lots of the time they DON’T want you but they will rip your ass open to get the guy that they do want. It makes me laugh when people think they are safe because they are only buying small amounts and say “they don’t go DOWN the ladder.” Yeah, they do. All the time. They go down the ladder to get a firm foothold and move up the ladder.
Anthony Roberts: Yeah…I got rolled on when I went to prison for Ecstacy. I had 118 tabs, and the guy they caught had 20 hits and rolled on me right away. He would have done no time, instead I was sentenced to 13 months, on possession with no intent to deal for a first time non-violent offence, and got out with doing half of that…
Anon: People roll like logs. I honestly don’t blame them. I wouldn’t do 15 years for [email protected] no matter what. Fuck Swole. I did under 2 years and I lost family while I was in there. Do you know how much it sucks to hear your family cry, “Why can’t you be here? We need you!” Do you know how much it sucks to miss your daughter’s first birthday? How much it hurts to lose a grandparent or a parent while locked up? You think anyone is going to do that because it’s the right thing to do? Its not the right fucking thing to do, unless you are a damn asshole.
With that being so perfectly fucking obvious, it should be clear that unless you are prepared to make the decision to turn everyone you care about in, you have no business selling steroids in modern-day America. There is too much money in it.
And for Ttokkyo, that money came largely from Ketamine. My buddy got bottles of K for $8 each and sold them for $32 each by the 10,000. He could do this every 2 weeks, limited only by how long it takes to drive across the country and back. After expenses, that equals around a quarter million dollars profit a month. Now, we are talking real money. This gets the attention of everyone. This is serious money, and this isn’t counting the little shit, the $30k deals you are making here and there because you sent a few boxes to someone direct, or decided to tell people that the peso went up in value and you need an extra $2 a bottle this time, while it really went down and you were saving a buck and the crosser gave you a discount. There was a ton of money to be made in Ketamine.
Did I mention that I never wanted to sell K? I didn’t. But I sold 1000 bottles one time, make something like $20k in an hour, and decided that it might be worth doing some K deals for a while.
Anthony Roberts: So everyone was making money hand over fist, right?
Anon: Ttokkyo saw more money than me and my buddy combined, times ten. They were rocking. And when money like that is up for grabs and the people making it are being active assholes, there is going to be trouble. They were out there on the net, taking orders from everyone, making stupid people rich and people were getting murdered over it.
Anthony Roberts: So how did you get pinched?
Anon: They picked me up first. I was set up pretty nicely by a fella that went by the name of DB and his buddy Leroy. Leroy is running around Thailand now, from what I heard on the boards. I don’t go on the boards much anymore, but when I got out I did visit the ones that were left and noticed a post about this. Of course, I don’t talk to anyone in those circles anymore. Why would I? They are all a bunch of “bros” that fuck each other over and they have no idea of loyalty. These people posting how Satchboogie or whoever is such a good dude, he is their buddy, are retards. When it comes down to it, you are money. You are nothing to him or any dealer. Yeah, you can chill and have some drinks, but they will roll on you in a second and you can’t blame them for it because you would too. Say all you want that you wouldn’t. I know better, and everyone who has been there knows better.
I was lucky in that I pled guilty right off the bat and so they used my guilty plea to leverage their case against other codefendants. I didn’t have to testify or mention anyone to anyone. I said that I did it and the other guys said everything else. Who cares? Once you go away there is no loyalty and nobody rewards anything. The Sopranos is bullshit. The Godfather is outdated. Dudes get life for a bag of crack, first offense, and that’s fucking it.
Anthony Roberts: So you are saying that the “Ttokkyo Steroid bust” was actually a recreational drug bust? It was all about the K?
Anon: The K, the active solicitation of American business, and the money involved was too much for the USG to ignore. It wasn’t K. It was the combination of everything. Cheminova sold a ton of K and they never had executives indicted. Ttokkyo packaged everything really nicely for resale in America and that did them in. At one point they sold a 50 ml bottle that was cheap as balls, but they discontinued it because the fact is, you can’t fit one of those into your pocket and bring it into the club. They were all about making money off of Americans. Sure, some of us made a lot of money (some made a LOT of money) selling within Mexico itself as well. The real cash was with the gringos.
Anthony Roberts: So if you get indicted…
Anon: I spoke to this a bit already, but in summation, if you get indicted, you will go to jail. The Feds have a 98 percent conviction rate. They don’t lose. And if you go to jail, you will never be the same. You can’t spend drug money on a house without breaking a million other laws. You can’t beat the government. Now that they have the Patriot Act, they can do whatever they want. Overseas servers don’t mean shit. You think Zimbabwe won’t give the DEA the keys to a server locked in some office somewhere? You think China won’t help out? You think the Chinese or French government isn’t as interested in getting some of this money as the US government is? Fuck privacy. There is none. I have personally seen PGP decoded that should not have been able to be decoded. All the boards have DEA on them. A few that I know of are controlled by the DEA. One time, the DEA called this one board a “branch office” in front of me, because they had so many agents on it..
Anthony Roberts: So I take it you wouldn’t recommend being a steroid dealer as a career choice, huh?
Anon: If you want to sell steroids then you have to be a rinky dink $3000 a week guy. That isn’t worth it to me, personally. I can make that kind of money with a job. If you want to sell roids and make real money, you are playing with the US government now, and they make the rules as they go. You’ve seen what they do the POWs. You’ve seen what they do to suspected terrorists. You don’t get a phone call when you go to jail and they don’t have to let you talk to a lawyer until you go to court. You disappear. They own your ass. You have no rights and you cannot hope to win at trial. You are going to plead guilty. You are going to lose.
The Federal Justice system is totally different than the state system. The state I live in could never have touched me. I knew that. They knew that. It didn’t matter. Along came the Feds with heresy and circumstantial evidence (admissible in Federal court) and they indicted me based on some shit that wouldn’t have held up in state court for a second. I was fucked from day one and there is no way around it. Once the Feds decide that you are interesting because either you are doing something noteworthy or you know someone who is doing someone noteworthy, you are on their radar. You might do a deal and get pulled over afterwards. They take your license, look at it, and let you go. A year later they kick down your door. They have seven years to come for you. Sometimes, they wait seven years. They took your license to prove that it was you in 1998 who was in Jimmy’s house. In 2004, they come and get you because with your testimony, they can finally get Jimmy. If you don’t testify, your wife is going to jail for 36 months and youre going for 120. You haven’t even talked to Jimmy in 2 years. You don’t even remember being pulled over. You haven’t even been selling drugs for 18 months.
Bye bye. They don’t give a fuck. Just like you gotta eat, so do they.
Anthony Roberts: So how was your time in the can?
Anon: Jail sucks. It’s no fun. I was in a pretty cushy place for a lot of my sentence, and it still sucked. Here’s a message to the guy(s) who rolled on me: Phil, I hope you know I know the truth now. You didn’t have to tell on me. You chose to. You weren’t looking at 15 years. You were looking at maybe one. You chose to fuck me and my family and everyone who I care and cares about me. You reached out to me and I told you there were no hard feelings. I didn’t know the truth. Now I do, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Be more ashamed knowing that I am kicking ass now, making $130k a year legally, driving a brand new BMW that cannot be seized because is all legal. Be most ashamed because you took me away from people who needed me. These were good people who never did anything wrong. These were people who knew nothing about anything criminal or illicit. You hurt them. Yes, I am to blame as well, but you didn’t need to hurt as many as you did. You are a pussy, and you will have to live with the knowledge that you are a cunt, in your heart, a cunt. At your core, there is a cunt. You too, Leroy.
Anthony Roberts: What do you think about the months following Ttokkyo's fall?
Anon: During the months following Ttokkyo’s fall, I was kind of busy with legal stuff. I didn’t get to really observe anything happening. All I know is what I have heard since. The major people in Ttokkyo who were busted had a lot of good info on the scene down south. Its no wonder Gear Grinder happened. Its no wonder Mexico made Brovel go back to making low dose testosterone. Its no wonder all those people got arrested. Frankly, I’m surprised it wasn’t a bigger event. But bigger events are coming, because people are getting even more stupid. I thought I'd get out of jail and see people acting smarter, but its almost the reverse. Look at any of the boards and the fucking sponsorships! I can’t believe they have drug dealers as sponsors. All you guys who own boards sponsored by drug dealers or anyone who furthers a conspiracy, you're liable to be indicted. If you own a server that a reasonable person would know illegal activity is taking place on, you are liable to be indicted to conspiracy towards that illegal activity. Its not enough to say “law enforcement cannot come in” – are you kidding me?
And Rick Collins is a joke. The dude doesn’t win cases. If you get a state charge, get a good local attorney. DO NOT fly in some fancy pants from another state. The judge will have a hard on for you. Steroids are an illegal drug like any other illegal drug, and you just need a good local lawyer. If you get a Fed charge, you are just as well off with a good appointed lawyer. Its going to be about your plea bargain, not trial strategy.
(From Anthony Roberts: I did not want to bash Rick here, but I agreed to let this go uncensored.)
Anthony Roberts: Do you see this Rise/Fall pattern happening again?
Anon: As I already said: yep. Its classic drug economics; one rises to fill a need and falls. Another comes along. The funny thing is that the stupidity also repeats itself. Like the aforementioned sponsorships on the boards and the powder distributors and the GenSci’s of the world, this shit doesn’t stop. Its endless. Greed will never die, I guess.
Anthony Roberts: Do you think the Mexican scene is still alive?
Anon: It’s limping along. There are UG labs down there with the advantage of being able to operate a little more freely and try to present themselves as legit. People always said Mexican gear was bathtub brew. Well, they are getting what they wanted. There are a couple companies down there now making things that look like they are from someplace else and might even have a corresponding business entity someplace else, but are really being made my Jose and Juan Carlos in the back of a tortilla factory.
Brovel and Tornel are still around, but they are behaving themselves now.
It’s not the place it was. You can still get everything down there that you could want, but in jail they say that the inmates always ruin everything for the inmates. In the steroid world, the industry always ruins everything for the industry.
Anthony Roberts: Would you do it over, knowing what you know now?
Anon: Beautiful, classic question here, Anthony.
Knowing what I know now, no. I would not. I wasted six or so years of my life. I got to know a lot about steroids. So what? What good is that unless you’re selling steroids? So I got to drive fancy cars and be with all sorts of women and spend $10k a day. I got to ride in helicopters and play Scarface.
Yay. Now what? I was making money just to make money. I couldn’t spend it all.
I’m glad I know what I now know, and I am thankful that I didn’t get killed or kill anyone, and I am glad that I recognize the shame in humankind, and I am very thankful that I know what is important in life. Most of all, I am ashamed that I did not know it before.
My life and lifestyle was killing me. This time in jail and being faced with legal trouble has given me a new lease on life, and I have a life that I love dearly. I would die or kill for the life that I have now. It’s quite a switch.
But would I ever put the people I love through this again? No. I am proud that there is not one person out there, criminal or upstanding citizen, who will say anything bad about me. I am a really good friend to have and I was there for buddies who got locked up when nobody was there for me. But still, I can never forgive myself for what I did. I have no moral problems with myself for selling drugs. I have major problems with myself for smothering my lucidity of thought.
I would rather die than have my bumbling hand cause pain to people I love again.
Really, I hold no grudges against anyone who told on me. For one, I don’t have the energy and don’t want to spend my time thinking about you. For two, you know who you are. You know what you did. So does whatever God you pray to. And if you don’t pray to a God, and even if your God sides with you, you will have a little boy one day of your own. You might already. He will look up at you and you’ll be able to tell how much he loves you, admires you, thinks the world of you.
And inside, you will know what a cunt you are and how unworthy you are of his admiration.
That is enough for me. I am sorry that you have to live that way for the rest of your life, until the day you die, unable to take back your cowardice and sloth.
I have to go back to work now. Please, everyone, be safe. I fully support your right to manipulate your body in any way you choose and I fully recognize that there is a demand for drug dealers. If you choose to be one, please do your research first. Just like we all told newbies on the boards to go do a little reading first, I’m telling you that if you decide to go into the drug business, do your due diligence.
And then look at your family and ask yourself if it is worth losing them for. I know I would rather have my Father back than ten million dollars.
And then, when you do it anyhow and get your empty vials and sterile oil or make that 1000 amp purchase that is being sent to the abandoned house down the street, make sure you bury as much money as you spend, because you’ll need it when you get out.
I am tired now. I hope someone somewhere got something good from this.
Peace.
Anthony Roberts: Thank you for your time and giving us all the benefit of your experience
