Looking for advice for cutting...

I have never attempted to cut while on anything but Anavar in the past, however this time I plan to go at it more aggressively. In my previous cutting experiences, I haven't restricted calories much below 2000 - 1800 per day, but ramped up to 800+ cals/day of cardio ito create the deficit instead.

I'm right around 200 lbs now and roughly 16% bf. My goal is to get down to 8% or less, but I'll consider my efforts a success if I can get below 10%. I'm looking to do this as quickly as possible (mainly just to get it over with) and follow the cutting cycle with a couple months of clean bulking. My plan is to run 500mg/wk of test, 30mg/day of Epistane (as an anti-estrogen to keep the bloat down and somewhat for its anabolic properties), 75mcg/day of t3, and alternate 5 days on, 5 days off with around 80mcg/day of clen. I'll also be supplementing with ALCAR and Na-R-ALA for partitioning purposes, and NADH to keep my energy up. I plan to keep my daily calorie count below 1500 and as low as 1000 if I can stand it. My diet will rely heavily on protein shakes, very lean meats (probably a lot of baked/grilled chicken), and low carb vegetables. I'll also take a multivitamin for obvious reasons. I'll be doing 500 - 800 calories worth of cardio per day four days a week, with the amount depending on how much lifting I do. I would like to hit my goal within a month, but the sooner the better.

What do you all think? Am I planning for too low of a calorie count to function? I'm hoping that the t3 and NADH will be enough to keep my energy levels up. Would you consider the test and Epistane dosages be sufficient to keep me from burning up too much lean mass? I'm still getting over an upper respiratory infection, so I don't plan to start for at least another 10 days - I never get well when cutting carbs or running AAS - so I still have time to alter my plans if I need to. I want to push this as hard as I can, but still be safe and not do more harm than good.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

With the possibility of flu like symptoms from test, I would wait until your respiratory infection is completed clear until you begin. You also want to be aware of any contraindications if you are taking meds for it(in regards to all the supps you are taking).
What is your goal? Are you competing in a show or are you only doing this for you?
1000 cals is pretty low. I only hope you will be dividing that over 5-6 meals. Also, what kind of time do you see yourself on cardio each of the 4 days?
Watch out for any excess sugar in your protein shakes and limit dairy and breads.
I also would recommend adding vitamin C to your mix. You may get it from vegs and some from the multi, but you should think about adding it.

MMX2 said:

With the possibility of flu like symptoms from test, I would wait until your respiratory infection is completed clear until you begin. You also want to be aware of any contraindications if you are taking meds for it(in regards to all the supps you are taking).
What is your goal? Are you competing in a show or are you only doing this for you?
1000 cals is pretty low. I only hope you will be dividing that over 5-6 meals. Also, what kind of time do you see yourself on cardio each of the 4 days?
Watch out for any excess sugar in your protein shakes and limit dairy and breads.
I also would recommend adding vitamin C to your mix. You may get it from vegs and some from the multi, but you should think about adding it.

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I hear you loud and clear about fully recovering from being sick before starting. If I haven't been 100% well for the better part of a week before I start with this, I'm going to push it back. I don't think that test at that dose would give me test flu, but I never know for sure. I've stacked it with deca at 750mg/wk and had no problems at all, but I've also run it at 750 solo and felt like crap for several weeks initially.

I am not doing this for a show, just for me. I've been lifting steadily for a few years now and did so through high school and into my younger 20's, but I let myself slide in the few years between and got way too fat. I'm not terrible now at 16%, but I'd like to get back to where I was. My desire to try to cut weight rapidly is mostly to get it over with quickly. I don't like the run-down feeling from keto diets; I can tolerate it, but I'd rather just get it over with. Although rebound weight gain can is usually a problem with crash dieting, I'm not particularly concerned because a) I'll be upping the AAS doses and trying to lean bulk after cutting and b) because my bf% has been on a (very slow) downward trajectory for a couple of years now without purposefully dieting.

I do plan to spread the calories out over the day as much as possible, so that base is covered. I'm going to hate doing without milk, but I'll have to for a little while. Ever since I've been back into the gym, I drink about 3/4 gallon per day of skim. I may drink a small amount of Lactaid once I get a week or so in. It has 13g of carbs per 8oz, which is a little more than half that of regular milk.

As for the cardio, I prefer the elliptical. My usual energy expenditure rate is about 775 cals/hr, so I'd normally be at it from roughly 40 to 70 minutes. I imagine it could take me a third longer to complete after the first few days of cutting calories, though. I'm sure that it will really cut into my stamina and make it hard to keep the intensity up. I plan to be in the gym five days a week doing abbreviated lifting sessions in addition to cardio, but I don't think I'll have the energy to do cardio on leg day; hence cardio only four out of five days.

Point taken about the vitamin C. I definitely won't be drinking any fruit juice, so I may need to add more. Also, I think I'll drink a couple of servings of V8 per day. It has a good amount of vitamin C and potassium (which will help with clen cramps), it's filling, and it's only 50 cals per serving.

As far as the calories, judge by your results, and how you feel. What are you maintenance calories now? Those few cals without gear would suck the muscle right off of you. Let the mirror be your scale, and watch your BP.

500mg/wk of test sounds like a reasonable number, I could grow off of that alone. The T3 you have to ramp up and back down again, eg: 25/dx5d, 50/dx5d, 75/dx5d, ...as high as you can tolerate then slowly back down, ...75/dx5d, 50/dx5d, 25/dx5d, 12.5/dx5d. I would not go any longer than 6 wks, and prefer 4. I ramp clen too, because of the nasty sides I get. Run them together for somewhat of a synergistic effect, and try to find an ECA stack for the 4wks off in between T3 cycles. If you don't ramp the T3, you stand a good chance of shutting down your thyroid for good. Make sure PCT is in order before you start.

nucman said:

As far as the calories, judge by your results, and how you feel. What are you maintenance calories now? Those few cals without gear would suck the muscle right off of you. Let the mirror be your scale, and watch your BP.

500mg/wk of test sounds like a reasonable number, I could grow off of that alone. The T3 you have to ramp up and back down again, eg: 25/dx5d, 50/dx5d, 75/dx5d, ...as high as you can tolerate then slowly back down, ...75/dx5d, 50/dx5d, 25/dx5d, 12.5/dx5d. I would not go any longer than 6 wks, and prefer 4. I ramp clen too, because of the nasty sides I get. Run them together for somewhat of a synergistic effect, and try to find an ECA stack for the 4wks off in between T3 cycles. If you don't ramp the T3, you stand a good chance of shutting down your thyroid for good. Make sure PCT is in order before you start.

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My current maintenance calorie level is around 2800 - 2900, to the best of my knowledge. It's hard to know exactly because not everything spells out nutrition data and serving sizes vary, but that should be a good estimate of my maintenance level. As far as letting the mirror be my scale, that's basically my plan. Well, the mirror and a set of calipers. I am really not concerned about the scale at all.

I already check my BP frequently as it is normally a little high already. Test doesn't seem to have much effect on it, but I do have to be careful with the clen and t3 at higher doses. I won't be exceeding 80mcg/day with either for that reason, and I'll be monitoring my BP frequently, as well. It's kind of weird, some things that you think would ramp it up - like test and other things that increase water weight - don't, but turinabol sends it through the roof.

I didn't initially state that I'm going to aim for a max of 75mcg/day of t3, not just start with 75 and end with 75 without tapering, but I do plan to taper. I won't be exceeding four weeks with this whole plan, so there is no concern about running the t3 too long.

I've got a bunch of toremifene already stashed away for PCT and am waiting on IGF, which I'll also use for PCT. Those two seem to be the magic combination in my experience. Incredible, really.

I wouldn't be able to go from 16% to 10% in a month, and I wouldn't recommend rushing to "get it over with" either. As far as that run down feeling from keto diets, you should look into dave palumbo's version of a keto diet. I've never had so much energy throughout the day, been so alert, and shit so perfectly (awesome side effect). I made a thread about it, just run a search. You seem to know your shit, and have definitely done the reasearch. I just think rushing is a bad choice. Good luck though, and keep us posted.

teedubgee said:

I wouldn't be able to go from 16% to 10% in a month, and I wouldn't recommend rushing to "get it over with" either. As far as that run down feeling from keto diets, you should look into dave palumbo's version of a keto diet. I've never had so much energy throughout the day, been so alert, and shit so perfectly (awesome side effect). I made a thread about it, just run a search. You seem to know your shit, and have definitely done the reasearch. I just think rushing is a bad choice. Good luck though, and keep us posted.

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...and shit so perfectly (awesome side effect) I do remember that being a problem with higher doses of t3 too, now that you mention it. I'd kind of forgotten that little issue.

I'll read up on Dave Palumbo's keto diet. I'm all for anything that helps prevent that immotivated, lethargic, irritable mental state (which, again, was the reasoning for my initial interest in "getting it over with"). Just from your statement that you've never had more energy on a keto diet, I'm interested.

I'm not so set on this idea that I'm willing to jeopardize my health or make my life completely miserable for a month, so I am willing and ready to back off if I need to... for any reason but lack of will power. I hope that makes it sound like slightly less of a bad choice. It will be a challenge and I will be dissappointed with myself if I can't stick with it, but I'm not committed to the point of disregarding my well being.

teedubgee said:

I wouldn't be able to go from 16% to 10% in a month, and I wouldn't recommend rushing to "get it over with" either. As far as that run down feeling from keto diets, you should look into dave palumbo's version of a keto diet. I've never had so much energy throughout the day, been so alert, and shit so perfectly (awesome side effect). I made a thread about it, just run a search. You seem to know your shit, and have definitely done the reasearch. I just think rushing is a bad choice. Good luck though, and keep us posted.

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you have a link bro? i found the post of yours asking about it but nothing with info on it. I searched around and couldnt find much. Im pretty interested in running it. thanks bud.

Get_Swole said:

you have a link bro? i found the post of yours asking about it but nothing with info on it. I searched around and couldnt find much. Im pretty interested in running it. thanks bud.

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I think this is the thread in question. I haven't had time to read it thoroughly yet, but I will be doing so.

Yep, T3 and Clen in high doses raises my BP. I use a low dose ARB to control it, and HCTZ if I get Test bloat, along with femera.

nucman said:

Yep, T3 and Clen in high doses raises my BP. I use a low dose ARB to control it, and HCTZ if I get Test bloat, along with femera.

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You know, the doctors and nurses I've seen at times when my blood pressure has been high have been very dismissive about it. It's normally not this bad unless I'm on a few particular AAS or other chemicals that aggravates the situation, but I've been over 150 mmHg systolic and even up to 173 once while I was on turinabol. I've made appointments to discuss the issue and the usual response I get from the doctor is "keep a log for at least six months, then bring it in". I would think that seeing a reading over 150 systolic in someone my age would get an immediate response, but so far it hasn't. That being said, my BP is usually nowhere near that bad and the higher readings were all on automated equipment that may not have been calibrated properly. I've never had a systolic reading much over 140 with a manual sphygmomanometer and stethoscope reading and my diastolic usually isn't too bad. I've quoted some high numbers, but my BP normally runs something like 128-135 systolic and 83-89 diastolic. It's been going down slowly but constantly as I've lost more fat and spent more time in the gym, but I do keep an eye on it because it's still not exactly low. If it goes even a little higher than my norm with a manual reading, I start looking to stop whatever might be causing it. I definitely don't f*ck with turinabol any more. If I keep my doses of clen and t3 moderate it doesn't have much effect, although higher doses (>100mcg/day of either) do. That's the reason I'm not trying to push the doses any higher. I've never had an injectable AAS affect my BP to any noticeable degree, surprisingly enough. If they ever have made any difference, it's been less than my normal variability. All in all, BP is something that can be a problem for me and is something I do keep track of, but it has been improving overall. I do not want my kidneys or dick to stop working one day, nor do I want to have a stroke or aneyurism.

If the epistane in my plan isn't enough to control estrogenic effects, I have plenty of both letro and arimidex on hand. I've never tried using epistane for this purpose, so it's kind of an experiment for me. If I can block aromatization and get a little more anabolic benefit at the same time, all the better.

You guys have all been full of great advice and I appreciate it. It's about time for me to head out and have a little fun before I cut out all the good stuff!

I'm underway with my plan now and am down a lot already (although a lot is guaranteed to be water). I went a little too high on exercise and a little too low on calories for the first couple of days, but I feel good now and not like I'm starving. Anyone interested in a log?

ballsoutpunk said:

I'm underway with my plan now and am down a lot already (although a lot is guaranteed to be water). I went a little too high on exercise and a little too low on calories for the first couple of days, but I feel good now and not like I'm starving. Anyone interested in a log?

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hell yeah bro i would love to read about your progress. I love logs. good luck man.

Get_Swole said:

hell yeah bro i would love to read about your progress. I love logs. good luck man.

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One quick question - I haven't been using this forum very long. Is this the appropriate discussion board, or should I post to General Conversation or somewhere else?

Thanks!

You're in the right forum bro.

yup anything that pertains to muscles gear etc. etc. in here general is just for bullshit like youtube vids or somthing. Good luck brotha.

Cool. I'll start a new thread tomorrow. The quick summary is that I started unintentionally at around ~200lbs on October 2nd (when I got bronchitis). I was down to 189 on the 20th, when I finally got well and started cutting on purpose. I'm at 182 as of my weigh in on Oct 24th. I know a good deal of it is water; I'm looking quite deflated. I've lost a noticeable amount of fat as well. I won't keep this pace up, though, as I'm currently going to way overshoot my goal. I'm also concerned that I could potentially cause myself some health problems if I don't increase my net intake a bit. More details to come!

You might want to throw in some sex before bed and right when you get up... Especially in the morning while your glycogen levels are low

swole27 said:

You might want to throw in some sex before bed and right when you get up... Especially in the morning while your glycogen levels are low

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I like your thinking. I usually want to throw some sex in while I'm at work, too. And before and after meals and workouts, now that I think of it. I believe we're on to something here... the Peter North weight loss plan! :surprised