Thanks Thanks:  0
Recommend Recommend:  0
Likes Likes:  0
  1. #1
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified Psy.D
    Cruel.intention's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    109
    Rep Power
    135

    Arrow Do long cycles desensitize you to test? How much test for maintenance?

    Hey guys the doses I browsed through are high. ex. I saw Chris takes 4 grams per week of just juice etc. I am on a year and half maybe more with maybe 4 month downtime from gym and "supplements." During that time I lost a lot of strength and just gained fat. I stray from my point I wounder doesn't your receptor sites get up-regulated therefor more sensitive to test with time. I understand that cortisol levels are probably high and probably estrogen as well.
    To my understanding estrogen is vital to bone health and muscle growth so I rarely take ancillaries. Anyway my maintenance is around 750mg test cyp or ethanate. Lately rarely I go higher, maybe to 1500mg.

    Point is do you guys know of any solid research or personal experience on how exactly long cycles work on the body (ex. year+ vs 2-3 month) regarding limitation of growth. How does the body react to long cycles? What your maintenance dosage should be if your on long? How do you keep getting fresh gains and limit the body from getting "used" to test. Thanks for your input.
    "Try again, fail again. Fail better."
    Samuel Beckett

  2. #2
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    h8tr3d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hot-Ass Texas
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,510
    Rep Power
    598255

    Default

    i know what you mean bro. That shit happens to me all the time...


    bump for answers!!
    --Kids are stupid--

  3. #3
    saudades
    MuscleChemistry Unregistered User

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel.intention View Post
    Hey guys the doses I browsed through are high. ex. I saw Chris takes 4 grams per week of just juice etc. I am on a year and half maybe more with maybe 4 month downtime from gym and "supplements." During that time I lost a lot of strength and just gained fat. I stray from my point I wounder doesn't your receptor sites get up-regulated therefor more sensitive to test with time. I understand that cortisol levels are probably high and probably estrogen as well.
    To my understanding estrogen is vital to bone health and muscle growth so I rarely take ancillaries. Anyway my maintenance is around 750mg test cyp or ethanate. Lately rarely I go higher, maybe to 1500mg.

    Point is do you guys know of any solid research or personal experience on how exactly long cycles work on the body (ex. year+ vs 2-3 month) regarding limitation of growth. How does the body react to long cycles? What your maintenance dosage should be if your on long? How do you keep getting fresh gains and limit the body from getting "used" to test. Thanks for your input.

    Even smaller doses for long periods of time will "desensitize" or down-regulate receptors. This is why some advocate doing large burst type cycles of 1-2g of test for 8 weeks. The theory is that the body doesn't react that quickly so when it is just starting to react, you stop the test. Estrogen is necessary in a certain amount, but for some, conversion happens too much which gives you the common sides of gyno, etc., eliciting a need for some anti-estrogen control. Cortisol levels also rise because the testosterone blocks it from getting to the receptors--another good reason for doing the shorter cycles so cortisol doesn't rise so much that it takes away all of your gains when you come off. Being on cycle on large amounts for a long period of time can permanently disrupt your body's feedback cycle and leave you with a dependence on external testosterone. Sadly, there isn't a lot of research on any of this because of all steroids being classified the way they are. The normal way we've accepted to make sure you get fresh gains and from getting used to the extra test is to come off cycle for as long as you've been on cycle. We know that works.
     

  4. #4
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Age
    19
    Posts
    5,673
    Rep Power
    187983

    Default

    I notice that guys who stay on consistently, will change compounds every 2-3 months. Like anything....diet, training, environment, etc, your body will adapt. So you have to constantly change things to keep making gains.

    I believe that some guys need more test than others.....and my theory is its based on how much test they naturally have...or had. Some guys blow up on 500mg, others need 3 grams. But I think the guys that need 3grams naturally had very high test levels compared to guys who blow up on 500mg. No proof, just a theory.
    "The greatest risk is to take no risk."

  5. #5
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    h8tr3d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hot-Ass Texas
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,510
    Rep Power
    598255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dreww View Post
    I notice that guys who stay on consistently, will change compounds every 2-3 months. Like anything....diet, training, environment, etc, your body will adapt. So you have to constantly change things to keep making gains.

    I believe that some guys need more test than others.....and my theory is its based on how much test they naturally have...or had. Some guys blow up on 500mg, others need 3 grams. But I think the guys that need 3grams naturally had very high test levels compared to guys who blow up on 500mg. No proof, just a theory.
    I agree with you brotha. If i use the MG's i used in my first, 2nd, or even 3rd cycles, I wouldnt gain shit. Ive easily increased my doses by 25-45% every cycle, and Im gaining "normally" i guess. Not like the first few, but still making progress slowly. weight isnt going up much....... Im wondering if I need to up It even more??
    --Kids are stupid--

  6. #6
    MuscleChemistry Guru Board Certified MD
    dorian123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,625
    Rep Power
    2147489291

    Default

    I'll go 12 weeks on heavy cycle, 2G/week of test about 500mg/week of tren

    then I maintain for 12 weeks with nothing but 325mg/week of test

    will have to bump up on my next cyle to about 2.5G/week of test to keep moving forward
     

  7. #7
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified Psy.D
    Cruel.intention's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    109
    Rep Power
    135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dorian123 View Post
    I'll go 12 weeks on heavy cycle, 2G/week of test about 500mg/week of tren

    then I maintain for 12 weeks with nothing but 325mg/week of test

    will have to bump up on my next cyle to about 2.5G/week of test to keep moving forward
    Shit dude how often do you inject per week. How much do you again from this cycle.
    "Try again, fail again. Fail better."
    Samuel Beckett

  8. #8
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    8,480
    Rep Power
    2147492142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dorian123 View Post
    I'll go 12 weeks on heavy cycle, 2G/week of test about 500mg/week of tren

    then I maintain for 12 weeks with nothing but 325mg/week of test

    will have to bump up on my next cyle to about 2.5G/week of test to keep moving forward
    I think the reason is very simple. As you gain muscle, the new muscle cells need androgens to stimulate them and so forth. Its pretty easy logic. The more muscle the more muscle cells the more receptors. An 85lb girl needs how many calories to maintain her weight a girl that is 150lbs with the same ratio of muscle to fat would need more calories.
    The Dude Abides

  9. #9
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    Chris250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,750
    Rep Power
    8095

    Default

    I will do blast cycles, of supplements in the 1.5 to 2 gram range...then go down to just 200-300mg per week to maintain for a peroid of time...(depending what show im doing) ...Ive tried doing higher than 2 grams range and it just seems to make me sick/flu like all the time...(plus high B.P, feel like crap ect) Doing some human grade stuff (and lowered my doses) and I think (I'll let you guys know in a month or so, just started this week) this is going to be better than the UG stuff I've had in the past...but we will see

  10. #10
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Age
    19
    Posts
    5,673
    Rep Power
    187983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by h8tr3d View Post
    I agree with you brotha. If i use the MG's i used in my first, 2nd, or even 3rd cycles, I wouldnt gain shit. Ive easily increased my doses by 25-45% every cycle, and Im gaining "normally" i guess. Not like the first few, but still making progress slowly. weight isnt going up much....... Im wondering if I need to up It even more??
    ive never gained like my first cycle, til now. ive used higher dosages than this cycle, but not for a consistent 10 weeks like this time. didnt gain shit off a gram of test. but upped to 1.5gms....and gaining like my first. next bulker, yup, 2gms
    "The greatest risk is to take no risk."

  11. #11
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    h8tr3d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hot-Ass Texas
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,510
    Rep Power
    598255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dreww View Post
    ive never gained like my first cycle, til now. ive used higher dosages than this cycle, but not for a consistent 10 weeks like this time. didnt gain shit off a gram of test. but upped to 1.5gms....and gaining like my first. next bulker, yup, 2gms
    ok, im sold..... the test is increasing. I think im on 1000mg, lol, but I might try to double it.
    --Kids are stupid--

  12. #12
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Age
    19
    Posts
    5,673
    Rep Power
    187983

    Default

    ive read so many articles about national competitors never needing over 1gm to get to like 260+lbs offseason. so either all my shit is underdosed, or i aint got the genetics. hell i knew that one yr after starting training.
    "The greatest risk is to take no risk."

  13. #13
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    8,480
    Rep Power
    2147492142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dreww View Post
    ive read so many articles about national competitors never needing over 1gm to get to like 260+lbs offseason. so either all my shit is underdosed, or i aint got the genetics. hell i knew that one yr after starting training.
    No that is just bullshit. One of my best friends used to be way up there. He was touted as Chris Cook's only competition. He used to say the same shit. I was over at his house with his wife and my g/f having dinner and it came up and I called him out on it. He admitted to doing 2 sustanon 250 a day, a bottle of Deca a week, 100mg of Dbol a day and ANYTHING else he could get his hands on. He said he had probably hit 5 grams of test a week at certain times. He didn't have a schedule. He took as much as he could. He used to say "anything over 500mg a week is a waste". Now he laughs at all the people that believed him.
    The Dude Abides

  14. #14
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    irish2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,824
    Rep Power
    102289589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    No that is just bullshit. One of my best friends used to be way up there. He was touted as Chris Cook's only competition. He used to say the same shit. I was over at his house with his wife and my g/f having dinner and it came up and I called him out on it. He admitted to doing 2 sustanon 250 a day, a bottle of Deca a week, 100mg of Dbol a day and ANYTHING else he could get his hands on. He said he had probably hit 5 grams of test a week at certain times. He didn't have a schedule. He took as much as he could. He used to say "anything over 500mg a week is a waste". Now he laughs at all the people that believed him.
    our bodies are an experiment.....because no one really knows what they're body can handle raising and lowering doses just like changing diet and training is necessary....a couple years ago i was doing omnas only....now i'm currently running 1800mg test e/wk + 50mg test suspension ED + 75mg tren ace ED....in a couple weeks i'll be adding syntrop blend #2 at 2ml/wk (500mg test e,300mg tren enanthate,200mg test prop)
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

  15. #15
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Age
    19
    Posts
    5,673
    Rep Power
    187983

    Default

    lol @ the dude.

    its so hard to get honest answers. but yea, your friends dosing is proving my point.
    "The greatest risk is to take no risk."

  16. #16
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified Psy.D
    Cruel.intention's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    109
    Rep Power
    135

    Default

    crazy, so all this low dose nonsense is shit then eh?
    "Try again, fail again. Fail better."
    Samuel Beckett

  17. #17
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    Get_Swole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    your moms house
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,624
    Rep Power
    1779190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel.intention View Post
    crazy, so all this low dose nonsense is shit then eh?
    most of the time yes. Chris250 posted a great thread on here about Big A and talking about pro's doses and lifestyles etc. Pretty interesting read see if i can dig it up.
    All statements from Get_Swole are strictly fictional none of the statements should be taken seriously or literally.

  18. #18
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    h8tr3d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hot-Ass Texas
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,510
    Rep Power
    598255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel.intention View Post
    crazy, so all this low dose nonsense is shit then eh?
    not necessarily. If you gain 25lbs off of 500mg/wk, why the hell would you increase in that cycle?? You wouldnt because thats "good gains". Now next time around, 500 might only get you 5-10lbs........ thats when you consider the increase, and so on and so forth. And you might decide to take a FULL year off from gear. That is when 500 mg might work again for you. Like stated, it's all in how your body reacts. After a few cycles, low doses seem to be just that.
    --Kids are stupid--

  19. #19
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    Get_Swole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    your moms house
    Age
    38
    Posts
    8,624
    Rep Power
    1779190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by h8tr3d View Post
    not necessarily. If you gain 25lbs off of 500mg/wk, why the hell would you increase in that cycle?? You wouldnt because thats "good gains". Now next time around, 500 might only get you 5-10lbs........ thats when you consider the increase, and so on and so forth. And you might decide to take a FULL year off from gear. That is when 500 mg might work again for you. Like stated, it's all in how your body reacts. After a few cycles, low doses seem to be just that.
    I should edit my post i assumed he was talking about low doses for pro's and higher up guys. Low doses are great until you need more. But your not gonna get pro size off 1 gram of test.
    All statements from Get_Swole are strictly fictional none of the statements should be taken seriously or literally.

  20. #20
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified MD
    The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    8,480
    Rep Power
    2147492142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Get_Swole View Post
    I should edit my post i assumed he was talking about low doses for pro's and higher up guys. Low doses are great until you need more. But your not gonna get pro size off 1 gram of test.
    Looking at the original post, I agree. Too vague. I question his training and dedication as he mention "four months off from the gym and supplements." I took 30 days off for my bicep tear and reattchment and about the same for my pec tear. For your average guy that wants to use steroids as a quick way to build muscle.... I don't know. I reached my full genetic potential training as a natural bodybuilder before I started steroids. I haven't taken more than 30 days off in 18 years. Also so far I'm "maintaining" my 250+ lb physique on 200mg of test a week and I'm only 5'9. I'm not slamming the recreational users or the guys who do not wish to compete, but if you aren't maximizing your nutritional, training, and rest factors then steroids should be furthest from your mind.
    The Dude Abides

  21. #21
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Board Certified Psy.D
    Cruel.intention's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Age
    38
    Posts
    109
    Rep Power
    135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Looking at the original post, I agree. Too vague. I question his training and dedication as he mention "four months off from the gym and supplements." I took 30 days off for my bicep tear and reattchment and about the same for my pec tear...
    Dude I am not in competition with you or anybody else, some of us have difficult situations, different environments and we deal with things differently. The only person I am competing against is myself nothing more nothing less.
    "Try again, fail again. Fail better."
    Samuel Beckett

Similar Threads

  1. How to put together the best anabolic steroid cycle with PCT
    By giantkilr in forum MuscleChemistry Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-06-2023, 09:32 AM
  2. creating the perfect cycle...
    By giantkilr in forum MuscleChemistry Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-10-2021, 11:46 AM
  3. How to Create the Perfect Cycle
    By *N.V.S* in forum MuscleChemistry Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-20-2015, 07:06 PM
  4. How to Create the Perfect Cycle
    By *N.V.S* in forum General Conversation Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-19-2007, 09:46 AM
  5. Drug Testing
    By nitro_tech2k3 in forum MuscleChemistry Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-02-2006, 07:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in