Other methods of progression in training?

The Dude

MuscleChemistry Registered Member
What are some other ways you guys think you could gauge and increase muscle growth other than simply using heavier weights. At some point strength increases will simply lead to injury, then you build back up, then injury and so on. So what other things do you guys think lead to muscle growth?
 
well I dont think strength is going to directly affecct muscle growth. What about measurements?
 
well I dont think strength is going to directly affecct muscle growth. What about measurements?

What do you mean measurements? I keep watching these bodybuilding videos and alot of the guys are using weights I use, but at least look much bigger. I'm thinking of maybe in addition to the pre exhaust maybe I should drop my weights down and do more constant tension (mid range reps) and work my way back up. I see some guys add sets, but more volume doesn't work for me. I get bigger in direct relation to my strength.
 
For me if I train for strength say in the rep range of 4-6, I loose size but get stronger. I know this might not make sense. But if I up the volume of my training and do more reps say 12 reps for upper body parts, 15-20 for legs i get much better results. I believe its time under tension. I don't use near as much weight but fill i work the muscle out harder. Hope this makes sense as i know it works for me
 
For me if I train for strength say in the rep range of 4-6, I loose size but get stronger. I know this might not make sense. But if I up the volume of my training and do more reps say 12 reps for upper body parts, 15-20 for legs i get much better results. I believe its time under tension. I don't use near as much weight but fill i work the muscle out harder. Hope this makes sense as i know it works for me

I've already done that. I train in the 12 - 20 rep range now. My tendons can't handle what my muscles can. Maybe I'll just keep the weights the same and up the reps indefinitely?
 
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Did it. Problem is that it focuses on strength as the progressive marker. As my exercise weights are going up, injuries are becoming more frequent. I still do a modified DC program and I improve every week, but the weights are really getting up there. Maybe this is where genetics really shine.
 
If I understand your original question, you are looking for increases in muscle size, but you want to increase muscle size via a different method than simply using heavier weights. Is that correct?

In simple terms, for progression there has to be either an increase in weight moved or an increase in the number of reps performed. This is directly related to force x distance = work performed. A simplified example: say you move 200 lbs for a distance of 3 feet for 15 reps. Work performed would be 200 x (3 x 15) = 9,000. Using 180 lbs for 20 reps of the same distance is 180 x (3 x 20) = 10,800. More work was performed with the lesser weight. This is where the time under tension principle takes effect. Since more work is performed with 180 for 20 reps, the muscle is damaged/stimulated more, and providing proper nutrition and recovery time, it will grow more.

The key here is not to immediately increase weight. The more reps performed, the more work done and the more muscle stimulation occurs. What you want to do is to try to increase reps using any particular weight. Only once you have attained a "threshold" number of reps that you can perform easily of your own choosing, then increase the weight heavy enough to perform a minimum number of reps, possibly in the 6-10 range or some other number of your choosing (technically, the 6-10 range is only a guideline and you should do what feels best to you). Then you start working on increasing the number of reps again.

I always used to try to increase the weight each time in earlier years, and I got pretty strong, but I didn't build the size along with it like I perceived other guys doing. Only in the last year have I finally figured out that I need to focus on reps first, my own range going as high as 25-30 on some lesser exercises and 15-20 in the core exercises (such as squats, etc.) I have literally had to retrain the way I do these exercises as a result, and suddenly, I'm making far more progress in terms of muscle size in a shorter time span, especially my legs. It's extremely satisfying to be able to add 1/2 of an inch to your legs in 3 weeks, which is what happened when I first figured it out with squats this year. I still do DC, but I do it building up to a higher number of reps since that is what MY body needs.
 
I've been having some really good results going really slow on the negative. Like 3-5 seconds. By the end of the set my muscles feel exhausted, yet my joints are still happy, unlike when I go heavy. lol
 
If I understand your original question, you are looking for increases in muscle size, but you want to increase muscle size via a different method than simply using heavier weights. Is that correct?

In simple terms, for progression there has to be either an increase in weight moved or an increase in the number of reps performed. This is directly related to force x distance = work performed. A simplified example: say you move 200 lbs for a distance of 3 feet for 15 reps. Work performed would be 200 x (3 x 15) = 9,000. Using 180 lbs for 20 reps of the same distance is 180 x (3 x 20) = 10,800. More work was performed with the lesser weight. This is where the time under tension principle takes effect. Since more work is performed with 180 for 20 reps, the muscle is damaged/stimulated more, and providing proper nutrition and recovery time, it will grow more.

The key here is not to immediately increase weight. The more reps performed, the more work done and the more muscle stimulation occurs. What you want to do is to try to increase reps using any particular weight. Only once you have attained a "threshold" number of reps that you can perform easily of your own choosing, then increase the weight heavy enough to perform a minimum number of reps, possibly in the 6-10 range or some other number of your choosing (technically, the 6-10 range is only a guideline and you should do what feels best to you). Then you start working on increasing the number of reps again.

I always used to try to increase the weight each time in earlier years, and I got pretty strong, but I didn't build the size along with it like I perceived other guys doing. Only in the last year have I finally figured out that I need to focus on reps first, my own range going as high as 25-30 on some lesser exercises and 15-20 in the core exercises (such as squats, etc.) I have literally had to retrain the way I do these exercises as a result, and suddenly, I'm making far more progress in terms of muscle size in a shorter time span, especially my legs. It's extremely satisfying to be able to add 1/2 of an inch to your legs in 3 weeks, which is what happened when I first figured it out with squats this year. I still do DC, but I do it building up to a higher number of reps since that is what MY body needs.

This is exactly what I mean. Maybe I'll just have to keep upping the reps. I've maxed the leg press with 11plates a side for 20, but I'll continue to do higher reps. I'm still having difficulty with squats from the knee injury and nerve damage. My upper body movements have improved tremendously and I'm starting to get a little nervous about the weights.
 
Some guys on another board were talking about Hst training. They say its aimed at size instead of strength and safer. Don't know much about it but thought I'd throw it out there.
 
Some guys on another board were talking about Hst training. They say its aimed at size instead of strength and safer. Don't know much about it but thought I'd throw it out there.

HST? I'll have to take a look for it. I was also thinking along the lines of starting out each bodypart with a lighter weight pre exhaust and then doing a big drop set?
 
Doing the same amount of work in less time

If you decrease the amount of time it takes to lift the same amount of work that also increases stimulus
 
you can also slow the negative down. I push hard on my squat and every time I get a 45 on that has never been on I take a couple workouts where I will add a rep or two and also slow the negative down 1-2 seconds. Same weight, but much harder! More growth!

This is true. I didn't suggest it because of the muscle tears he has had. I think once he is more comfortable with the concentric movements he can start accentuating the negative eccentric movements.
 
I see what your getting at now. IMO its all about the drugs when it comes to the way these pro's look. I dont think it has nothing to do with the way(method) they train, or the weight they use.

just my 2 cents
 
I see what your getting at now. IMO its all about the drugs when it comes to the way these pro's look. I dont think it has nothing to do with the way(method) they train, or the weight they use.

just my 2 cents
I agree
 
When you have unbelievable genetics like the pros do (or nuknuk--phenomenal), that's probably true, but for the regular guys like most of us, the training still has a lot to do with it IMO. We can't just do anything and grow like they do, we have to also train smartly for optimum growth without getting injured.
 
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