Thread: H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. BIG DIFFERENCE !!!

H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. (pct)

When To Start Using HCG?

Post Cycle Therapy aka "P.C.T." is essential after any steroid cycle. There has been a lot of great PCT protocols over the years, and many bodybuilders , and Athletes alike has garnered success with following some of these etched in stone protocols. Never-the-less, anything and most everything can be and will be approved upon at some point, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from an Anabolic / Androgenic Steroid Cycle.

You Can NOT Have Proper PCT without Proper HCG! So lets address the Misconception and Misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show our loyal MuscleCemistry.com Readers the most efficient way to use HCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.


HCG Reveil –
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCg) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). The testicles (testes) are then Stimulated by this (LH) Luteinizing Hormone to produce testosterone.
NOTE: LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.


When steroids (exogenous hormones) are introduces to the body, A QUICK DECLINE in LH Levels Occur. The cessation of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone. This process leads to a quick onset of testicular degeneration, by way of a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.


A small maintenance dosage of HCG ran alongside the steroid cycle can stop this "DEGENERATION" before it ever occurs!
Like myself, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that HCG should be used POST STEROID CYCLE, During Their PCT.

Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.)


If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.



One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity.
This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity.

If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.


To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.


Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.

In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production.



These studies show that postponing HCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery.
As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).



In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.


Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)


A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)


Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Overview
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

I encourage all of you to read this. ENJOY

Nice post!

I stimulate mine by rubbing them and their sidekick a lot.

Good write up

Originally Posted by Masher59

I stimulate mine by rubbing them and their sidekick a lot.

Ahhh they old "Stimulation by Masturbation To Offset Degeneration PCT Protocol" lol

Originally Posted by Presser

Ahhh they old "Stimulation by Masturbation To Offset Degeneration PCT Protocol" lol

Yup, it hasn't worked very well though because it looks like I have one tiny prune hanging off of a vienna sausage.

Great post Presser!! :-)

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Masher59

Yup, it hasn't worked very well though because it looks like I have one tiny prune hanging off of a vienna sausage.

I see your Prune hanging from a vienna sausage and raise you 2 grains of sand stuck to a thread

I like the smaller size. I can row so much easier! Lol

fuck! Finally found my article on Why HCG should be taken during your steroid / hormone cycle instead of after or Post cycle.

Bump

Thanks! Great info!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great article Presser. I am in the same boat Masher is in...lol

Hi Presser

Quick one : Im taking 500mg Test E and 300mg Deca Per week for 12 weeks.

1 – how much Aromasin whould I be taking anf when? My thoughts were 12.5mg EOD,
2- how much HCG during and post?

Thanks!

Nice read yeah. I usually take 500ui/week split in 2 dosis to be sure during the cycle and the same week i finish with roids i finish with hcg. Then i shoot like 5000ui in 4 dosis (1250ui) in the PCT EOD with clomi and tamoxfien(if needed) and i am always g2g. This time i will add Ostarine and probably Cardarine. Lets see how those 2 will help

Originally Posted by RyanKroogs

Hi Presser

Quick one : Im taking 500mg Test E and 300mg Deca Per week for 12 weeks.

1 – how much Aromasin whould I be taking anf when? My thoughts were 12.5mg EOD,
2- how much HCG during and post?

Thanks!

i think the article above suggestion is good

My personal opinion, HCG has a huge estrogen rebound, hence it is best to run it on cycle and discontinue with last shot, also you may have to run nolvadex alongside it to combat the excess estrogen produced, if you so use it for pct, consider extending your pct from 4 weeks to 6 or 7 weeks extending the 20mg nolvadex a day for an extra 3 weeks. Still think it's a bad idea for pct though.

Yeah its just one of those ways to skin a cat i suppose when it comes to how to use HCG , although my mind has been changed from PCT only, to Now i think ON Cycle HCG is best

Awesome write up !!!
Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

...

Presser can I share it on facebook groups to increase awareness. I will provide credit to you as well. Also. I used hcg 300 iu twice a week which is total of 5000 iu vial. Now I stopped trt. Can is use hcg again with low dose after two weeks of last shot. Thanks

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by adikul01

Presser can I share it on facebook groups to increase awareness. I will provide credit to you as well. Also. I used hcg 300 iu twice a week which is total of 5000 iu vial. Now I stopped trt. Can is use hcg again with low dose after two weeks of last shot. Thanks

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

of course we encourage everyone to share our threads on their social media accounts ! All you need to do is click one of our social sharing icons to do so easily

I see people asking if it is OK to use HCG during PCT all the time. The short answer is NO!!! HCG will shut you down! The article is spot on.

good share ,and learn when to start to use HCG now ,thanks so much~~

Great info.

Bump for member

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

hi
i have a test pro 10ml
trenbolone 10ml
stanazol 100
What do I use Length of PCT and While in use?

Thx

Originally Posted by naeim1930

hi
i have a test pro 10ml
trenbolone 10ml
stanazol 100
What do I use Length of PCT and While in use?

Thx

Gonna' have to be just a"skosh" more specific lad; not near enough information here.

You need to list the ester type, mg/mL, the dosage you plan on running & the length of time. All of those factors contribute into the subsequent PCT.

No disrespect whatsoever, but with the way in which you worded & asked your respective question, it conveys to me that you're not all that familiar with AAS and the like, meaning that perhaps you should 'slow your roll,' and reconsider your cycle; especially that of the Tren., etc.

Once again, no disrespect intended in any way, shape, or form. If I am mistaken, I apologize in advance, just don't want to see you fuck up your shit yo.

Cheers,
-b.

Originally Posted by batemantx

Gonna' have to be just a"skosh" more specific lad; not near enough information here.

You need to list the ester type, mg/mL, the dosage you plan on running & the length of time. All of those factors contribute into the subsequent PCT.

No disrespect whatsoever, but with the way in which you worded & asked your respective question, it conveys to me that you're not all that familiar with AAS and the like, meaning that perhaps you should 'slow your roll,' and reconsider your cycle; especially that of the Tren., etc.

Once again, no disrespect intended in any way, shape, or form. If I am mistaken, I apologize in advance, just don't want to see you fuck up your shit yo.

Cheers,
-b.

lmao! Wow yes that sounds like a disaster!!

I started cycling with hcg on cycle. I was going on and coming off same time I was on plus pct. The normal protocol. Yeah that didn't last long. Last few years I've only taken 2-3 months off, and even then I'm cruising at a small test dose. So stopped using hcg. Or used it when I come off everything.

This article certainly has me wanting to get back on some hcg asap! Good write up!

Originally Posted by DefMetalLifter

lmao! Wow yes that sounds like a disaster!!

Indeed Good Sir, indeed.

Hopefully he gets back to us, or at the very least does some better research into said cycle, etc.
Cheers,
-b.

Originally Posted by batemantx

Indeed Good Sir, indeed.

Hopefully he gets back to us, or at the very least does some better research into said cycle, etc.
Cheers,
-b.

Lol. No joke!

Ya my doctor said that I should do 100iu/day or 500iu/twice a week. From what I understand the later is the most common.

Really a great post with lots of information! I was searching to find them. Thanks, buddy!

Originally Posted by cg1337

Ya my doctor said that I should do 100iu/day or 500iu/twice a week. From what I understand the later is the most common.

Is that part of your testosterone replacement therapy HRT?

Helpful information that only raising testosterone 140%!

Originally Posted by Presser

H.C.G. During Your Steroid Cycle ~VERSUS~ H.C.G. Post Steroid Cycle. (pct)

When To Start Using HCG?

Post Cycle Therapy aka "P.C.T." is essential after any steroid cycle. There has been a lot of great PCT protocols over the years, and many bodybuilders , and Athletes alike has garnered success with following some of these etched in stone protocols. Never-the-less, anything and most everything can be and will be approved upon at some point, and I intend to show you the most effective way to recover from an Anabolic / Androgenic Steroid Cycle.

You Can NOT Have Proper PCT without Proper HCG! So lets address the Misconception and Misuse of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) and show our loyal MuscleCemistry.com Readers the most efficient way to use HCG for the fastest and most complete recovery.


HCG Reveil –
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCg) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). The testicles (testes) are then Stimulated by this (LH) Luteinizing Hormone to produce testosterone.
NOTE: LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone.


When steroids (exogenous hormones) are introduces to the body, A QUICK DECLINE in LH Levels Occur. The cessation of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone. This process leads to a quick onset of testicular degeneration, by way of a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.


A small maintenance dosage of HCG ran alongside the steroid cycle can stop this "DEGENERATION" before it ever occurs!
Like myself, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that HCG should be used POST STEROID CYCLE, During Their PCT.

Upon reviewing the science and basic endocrinology you will see that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.
Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand its purpose and its most efficient application. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate using hCG at a dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical (1960’s) hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency. A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.)


If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.



One term that is critical to understand is testosterone secretion capacity which is synonymous to testicular sensitivity.
This is the amount of testosterone your testes can produce from any given LH or hCG stimulation. Therefore, if you have reduced testosterone secretion capacity (reduced testicular sensitivity), it will take more LH or hCG stimulation to produce the same result as if you had normal testosterone secretion capacity.

If you reduce your testosterone secretion capacity too much, then no amount of LH or hCG stimulation will trigger normal testosterone production – and this leads to permanently reduced testosterone production.


To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.


Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) The point here is to not judge testosterone secretion capacity by testicular size.

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity caused by steroid use was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.

In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size. Another study with men using low dose steroids for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks (6) (INSL3 is an important biomarker for testosterone production potential and sperm production.



These studies show that postponing HCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery.
As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno. For example, high doses of hCG have been found to raise estradiol up to 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%. Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes -- the last thing someone wants during recovery. While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a SERM such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM (covered in another article).



In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. We must protect our testicular sensitivity. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn’t use it on cycle.


Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. (To help further enhance testicular sensitivity, the dietary supplement Toco-8 may be used)


A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)


Note: If following the on cycle hCG protocol, hCG should NOT be used for PCT.

Overview
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system.
In conclusion, we have learned that utilizing hCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent testicular degeneration. This helps create a seamless transition from “on cycle” to “off cycle” thus avoiding the post cycle crash.

	TEST PROP	TREN	BCP-157	IGF1 LR3	HCG	arimadex	NOLVADEX	CLOMID
	100MG EOD	100MG EOD	250μg ED	36μg ED	200iu EOD	as needed	ED	ED
	1cc	1cc	1/10th cc	1/10th cc	1/10th cc
WEEK 1 1/7	400 mg
WEEK 2 1/14	300 mg		250μg		600 iu
WEEK 3 1/21	400 mg		250μg		800 iu
WEEK 4 1/28	300 mg		250μg		600 iu
WEEK 5 2/4	400 mg		250μg		800 iu
WEEK 6 2/11	300 mg				600 iu
WEEK 7 2/18	400 mg				800 iu
WEEK 8 2/25	300 mg				600 iu
WEEK 9 3/4	400 mg		250μg	254μg	800 iu
WEEK 10 3/11	300 mg	300 mg	250μg	254μg	600 iu
WEEK 11 3/18	400 mg	400 mg	250μg	254μg	800 iu
WEEK 12 3/25	300 mg	300 mg	250μg	254μg	600 iu
WEEK 13 4/1	400 mg	400 mg
WEEK 14 4/8							40 mg	100 mg
WEEK 15 4/15							40 mg	100 mg
WEEK 16 4/22							20 mg	50 mg
WEEK 17 4/29							20 mg	50 mg
WEEK 18 5/6							10 mg	25 mg
			5mg< 2ml 2500μg< 1ml 250μg < 1/10th 5mg = 20days	1mg< 5.5ml 36.36μg< 2/10th 18.18ug< 1/10th 1mg = 27.5 days	5000iu< 2.5ml 2000iu< 1ml 1000iu< .5ml 200iu< 1/10th 5000iu = 25 days
			*near injury	*subQ	*subQ
							*** BPC-157, IGF1 LR3 , and HCG are mixed w/ bacterial static water

does this look okay?

nice post. do I need to use hCG in a 12-week cycle? Is it mandatory? Or we are using because the recovery is faster?
in a sample cycle 12week
1-12 test
1-14 hcg 2x250mg
14-18 tamoxifen40,40,20,20 and clomiphene50,50,25,25
I am waiting for your reply

Hey Presser,

Long time brother! Awesome article! So blessed I stumbled on this site a few years back.

So according to the above, i'm starting my HCG 18 days into cycle so ( 18 days x 40iu = 720 iu HCG for first shot? ) Then split up the 720 / 2 x a week for the rest of the cycle?

PS. Just received my LONG R3 IGF. Still get that feeling like a kid tearing open presents on Christmas morning! LOL

Great site as always!

Great thread!
For years I was told to only use it for pct...but for a good 6-7yrs I never came iff. I blasted/cruised most of my gear using days...until around 09 when I started using small amounts, 250iu's every 3rd day.
Once I started my cycles were all good. Minimal sides if any at all and and lower than average doses of test seemed to work better than high amounts when ran without hcg.

I’m running HCG for the first time with my cycle. Not through the whole cycle but picking up on the last 6 weeks and running it till all the esters clear per DR. Ran’s suggestions. I’m still a cycle guy so I’ll really be able to tell if this process is better for recovery pretty soon


Team MeccaGear!

I forget to use it sometimes, until I realize I need it. Just used it again. split it w pretty high dosages vs what they say is recommended, but it was needed, and worked

I doing 500 day for the first 7 days then dropping back to 500 twice a week until I finish


Team MeccaGear!

I had 5000 iu that I broke up into 4 shots, .3, .3, .3, .1 I did the first, 3 days later second, 3 days later 3rd, 6 days later 4th. Been getting midnight boners again lol

Originally Posted by Metal85

I had 5000 iu that I broke up into 4 shots, .3, .3, .3, .1 I did the first, 3 days later second, 3 days later 3rd, 6 days later 4th. Been getting midnight boners again lol

Are you on cycle?


Team MeccaGear!

Originally Posted by Maj7900

Are you on cycle?




Team MeccaGear!

Yeah A lifetime cruise

Originally Posted by Metal85

Yeah A lifetime cruise

Lifetime cruise lol


Team MeccaGear!

You have to start HCG BEFORE testicular atrophy, as in 2 weeks before first pin. You MUST take it the entire cycle length. That includes the length of time it takes to clear the gear systemically after the last pin. An other protocol for on cycle HCG use while on cycle will be far, far inferior to being no point. If a cheaper route is needed or rebound is an issue, then one blast well after the gear has cleared your system is your best bet.

Very interesting theory.
Just a practical question:

If I have 2000IU vial, can it last for 20days without degradation?

Maybe I need to dilute with BW if the water in the preloaded syringe was not BW?

Thankyou and cheers to all this is my first post here!