My Prohormone stack results-actually did well.

I don't know many people who would not say something about 12 weeks of orals. I wasn't bashing him and I'm happy for him - I just wouldn't recommend 12 weeks on those specific orals. 12 weeks of a low dose or mild oral might be ok.

I lived through the 80s. Things were different I guess. D-bol was 5 mg/tab. Common to see guys do 25 mg/d for 12 weeks. Some guys took a lot more. In all my years I can't think of one guy that had liver issues and all of the guys I still know from then are alive and pretty much healthy. Most of them are in their 50s. Most have kids too. Thing is these designers are like the cowboys of orals. Most are failed drugs that never made it through licensing because they failed in toxicology or in clinical studies or some other hurtle along the way. We really sjould not lump them in with all the stuff that got licensed like Win, Anavar, Dianabol. And the higher the dose the worse the chance of side effects. But the stuff that has been licensed, I rarely saw anyone have a problem even after 25 years later.
 
I lived through the 80s. Things were different I guess. D-bol was 5 mg/tab. Common to see guys do 25 mg/d for 12 weeks. Some guys took a lot more. In all my years I can't think of one guy that had liver issues and all of the guys I still know from then are alive and pretty much healthy. Most of them are in their 50s. Most have kids too. Thing is these designers are like the cowboys of orals. Most are failed drugs that never made it through licensing because they failed in toxicology or in clinical studies or some other hurtle along the way. We really sjould not lump them in with all the stuff that got licensed like Win, Anavar, Dianabol. And the higher the dose the worse the chance of side effects. But the stuff that has been licensed, I rarely saw anyone have a problem even after 25 years later.
I couldn't agree more with this. Msten is much more toxic than dbol. I wound't consider 25mg of dbol for 12 weeks wreckless.

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I was thinking my mild msten epi cycle for 6 weeks would be rough
Yeah I know a guy who would run 20mg of epi year round , but msten is just too potent to ever be called mild... maybe at like 5mg ed.
 
We have a guy here that gained 13 lbs of lean mass and lost 6% BF on 2 caps a day and everyone is crying foul liver while regularly running a gram of AAS a week themselves.

This actually makes sense.
Orals are liver toxic.
They also replace natural testosterone production with their own profile.
When someone injects test and uses orals they are mitigating this side effect.
So then the only worry is the harshness of the oral on the liver.
We ALL should now that SuperDrol is highly toxic.
So we dont want to run compounds similar or the same as Superdrol for very long with or without a TEST BASE.

The body is resilient.
Your ability recover proves this.
But better to be safe than sorry.

Having said that I am actually considering going 6 weeks of harsh orals (Msten, DMZ, SD; Not sure which one or combo yet)
MY plan is to supplement with TUDCA. This is the most potent liver protectant and actually repairs the liver.
Also I will have PCT on hand from start so in case at week 4 I want to stop, I can.
 
I couldn't agree more with this. Msten is much more toxic than dbol. I wound't consider 25mg of dbol for 12 weeks wreckless.

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Yeah I know a guy who would run 20mg of epi year round , but msten is just too potent to ever be called mild... maybe at like 5mg ed.

Mild in dosage actually 5 weeks msten at 20mg and 6 weeks epi at 30mg
 
Nope just keep bumping it

Hahah. Good one. We don't get to talk about prohormones that often. Nice to see a few that still work. What was the testosterone substitute in this stack? Msten? I read that stuff makes you super tired. A nice trt dose at least would have been sweet in this ph combo.
 
Hahah. Good one. We don't get to talk about prohormones that often. Nice to see a few that still work. What was the testosterone substitute in this stack? Msten? I read that stuff makes you super tired. A nice trt dose at least would have been sweet in this ph combo.
None of the stuff he ran converts to test.
 
I guess I meant the androgenic compound. I will look it up...... none of them really... all pretty dry and anabolic...:flex:

Structurally resembling the bastard child of M1T and superdrol, methyl sten is a DHT-derivative that is dimethylated at C-2 and C-17 (like superdrol) and has a 1-ene (like methyl-1-test).
m-sten.jpg




IIe = methyltestosterone
IIa = methyl-1-testosterone
IVd = methyl stenbolone
IIf = alpha one (17a-methyl-1-androstenediol)
IIIa = pheraplex (desoxymethyltestosterone)

DMZ 210/95 anabolic/androgenic (Dymethazine is two Superdrol molecules bound together by a nitrogen atom.)

Hdrol 74/28 anabolic/androgenic Both Halodrol and T-bol possess much lower androgenic activity levels than Dianabol, along with a better balanced ratio between anabolic and androgenic effects. Consequently, they both provide noticeable increases in quality lean muscle, as opposed to D-bols bloated muscle development.
 
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Compounds that Were mainly used in my Stack-Hope this helps
4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b-17b-diol (Dione) (Halovar)(Halo PH)

A clone of Halodrol (4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3b,17b-diol)

Halodrol is a 17aa steroid that converts to the steroid oral Turinabol after interaction with 3b-HSD at an estimated rate of about 5%. Because of this low conversion, doses must be higher than other 17aa pro-steroids. However, it is suspected that Halodrol has decent potency without conversion as good results are seen despite the relatively low conversion to Turinabol. Halodrol appears to be about as potent as testosterone, and significantly less androgenic.

Because of the 4-chloro group, halodrol has no progestational effects, it cannot interact with the aromatase enzyme, and it produces inactive 4-chloro-DHT metabolites. This makes androgenic side-effects such as hair loss, high blood pressure, acne and prostate enlargement less likely.

The lack of androgenic potency might be expected to create problems with gyno, however the low SHBG binding affinity has minimal interference with SHBG levels and/or freely circuiting estrogen and testosterone. It does not appear that halodrol has a significant gyno risk.

Because halodrol must be used at such a high dose to see noticeable effects, liver toxicity may become an issue. Therefore it is recommended to use a liver protecting supplement before and during halodrol cycles.

Gains from Halodrol generally take a few weeks to notice, but users can expect solid increases in strength, lean muscle mass, improved vascularity and minimal water retention. This allows some of the gains to be kept after the cycle if good diet and training are continued. Quick dramatic gains in size and strength are not generally noticed with Halodrol.

H-Drol and Halo Extreme is one of the most popular and proven compounds on the market and is considered good for beginners due to it's reputation for minimal side effects and dry gains that are relatively easy to maintain after the cycle is complete.

SO THIS MAY HELP CLEAR UP SOME THINGS.
YES Its a dry compound, take something for joints
YES lethargy can get you if you let it, Take a pre workout Supplement.
YES it converts in the body
NO its not harsh on the liver unless taken in high doses as it has aa relative short half live-Notice the dione ester and 3b placement of the branch chain-IN BARNEY TERMS-its easily broken down.

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5a-Hydroxy Laxogenin (also in Halo PH)

5a-Hydroxy Laxogenin was discovered in 1996 and shown to have an anabolic/androgenic ratio similar Anavar, but without the side effects of liver toxicity or testing positive for steroidal therapy. Athletes claim to have seen strength increases in 3-5 days, and muscle mass increases in 3-4 weeks.
AKA Laxogenin

This ompound has shown up as a standalone in Anabolica and Zoe's Ecdysterone.

5a-hydroxy-laxogenin is a steroidal sapinogen, although whether or not it is the desired laxinogen is a mystery since no lab standard for it is available, nor was it referenced within the GCMS library.

Marketing claims for this compund say it is the only product ever designed to increase mass and strength without steroidal influence and that it doesn't test positive for steroids.

Tests showed that protein synthesis increased by over 200%, the key to lean muscle growth and accelerated repair. In testing, 5a-Hydroxy Laxogenin has balanced cortisol response, which is the major cornerstone to healthy recovery and reduction of muscle wasting.

It's also been shown to balance cortisol on calorie restricted diets, helps control glucose and increases thyroid function.

Drips and Drabs pulled from the Internets....

"Laxogenin does indeed have some pretty profound anti-inflammatory effects. In addition to being able to be synthesized from Diosgenin, it is a component of smilax sieboldii."

"Laxogenin is a steroidal sapogenin isolated from Smilax sieboldi. As a spirostanic analogue of the brassinosteroid - teasterone, Laxogenin is noted for it's growth promoting activity [in plants]. It has also been demonstrated to aquire [cytotoxic] properties however, to what degree, I am not sure. In contrast, Laxogenin was demonstrated to aquire antitumor-promoting activity in a two-stage lung carcinogenesis experiment."

"The best (published) study can be found in the journal Phytochemistry, 1971, vol. 10, pp 1339-1346. Again in 1989, same journal vol. 28, no. 9 pp 2509-2511 (laxogenin acetate). There is reference going back to 1965 in Chem. Pharm. Bull. 13(5), pp. 545-550 (laxogenin).

It was Syrov's paper of 1976 though, appearing in Farmakol, Toksikol that really sparked my interest. The paper is entitled, "An Experimental Study on the Anabolic Activities of 6-keto Derivatives of some natural sapogenins".

It details the 4 sapogenins (referred to as compounds 1-4 in the Soviet Union) and gives source material, results of the classic steroid model (levator ani studies) and mentions other clues critical to their use. Most of these compounds can be derived from Diosgenin (so can testosterone).

Laxogenin appears closest to compound 2, the most desirable of these. Thermo includes it as 25R in their formulation and I very much wish it were available as a standalone. I can tell you from experience that when you get the right Laxogenin, it for sure delivers on the recovery, anti-inflammatory etc. side of things and is a superb regenerative agent.

NoHype, I would be most interested in your opinions in the event you do a deeper dive as I believe the compound holds great promise." <!-- AddThis Button BEGIN -->
 
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I have never seen that compound before...

Time to research. Prob BS.

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Moral of the Prohormone/Designer Steroid Story is:
1. Prohormone/Designer Steroid (PH/DS) are effective at adding muscle mass and increasing anabolic potential.
2. PH/DS are dangerous to the liver (hepatoxic), especially those that are 17a-methylated.
3. PH/DS carry all of the same risks associated with other forms of AAS like acne, hair loss, gyno, etc. (and can be dealt with in the same fashion)
4. PH/DS will suppress natural testosterone production. This can be supplemented with various forms of TRT.
 
Hahah. Good one. We don't get to talk about prohormones that often. Nice to see a few that still work. What was the testosterone substitute in this stack? Msten? I read that stuff makes you super tired. A nice trt dose at least would have been sweet in this ph combo.

Im on TRT just increased dose to 200 mg a week. Starting the cycle tomorrow i usually do legs on sunday but did mud run last night and knees are killing me
 
Superdmz is a designer aas... 2 actually. I personally hated Hdrol... & I was not light on dose or duration... Wasn't for me... But I loved superdrol... It actually gave me a strong desire to train!
 
Side note: It's fucking awesome that you can still order shit in the mail that will allow the dedicated to work even harder in the gym and in the kitchen without having to worry about legal repercussions.
 
I just found some serious info listing almost every Prohormone out there and I found 2 places that sell the raw powders not in capsules etc.
I may start a new threat on some of the better ones and all the info that's listed. I checked the sources the info is from research and some medical facilities dating all the way back to 1988. Even explains the main difference between wet/dry prohormones, strongest ones (I found them at wholefoods WTF?) and all dosages and results that it produced
Second thought Maybe I shouldn't share it so the sources of raw powders don't dry up..lol
 
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