Oral cycle, Turinabol or Winstrol?

[Pushtoday]

Alright as I get things situated, I have a few more questions.
"US Stock" or "US Domestic ship" means less TA time?
Plan is Dbol or tbol first 4 weeks. ( I'll need 50 tabs?) Tbol for 6 weeks and not do winny
Test E 12 weeks. ( I'll need 30 ml?) if its 300mg/ml then you would be fine with 20ml
Winstrol last 4weeks. (I'll need 50 tabs or 25 tabs cut in half?) i wouldnt do it but if they are 50mg tabs then 30
Aromicin for AI. (how many do I need) When do I start and when do I stop? 12.5mg e3d every third day and you can change it if you need to
Nolva for PCT. I start 2 weeks after last pin? (how long do I run it) id start 10 days after pin for 4 weeks 40/20/20/10mg

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AI the entire cycle

Thank you for the help. You don't like the winstrol in the cycle at all?
Is that because its my first cycle, or because of the toxicity? I can reduce the dosage.
Originally I was planning on an oral only cycle but I want to get and maintain some decent gains.
Test E is 250mg/ml.

 

[cbbram]

Very good information! I'm planning my first cycle as well but I don't think I'll include orals... Just test... I'll post another thread as I don't want to high jack this one but you guys are on your game!

 

[Nikon]

Hey PushToday! First I wanted to welcome you to MC!
You just landed in a GOLDMINE!
There is no need to go anywhere else for help now that you have found this board!
You will get all of the help you need from some guys that really know their stuff!
There are a lot of really good people here that want to help you (including myself).

Anyway, As far as the cycle goes, It sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row.
So far, I'm with IronJulius.
For your first cycle, I think a simple Test/Dbol or Tbol would be fantastic!
No need to add the winny.
When you add up the time of being on the Dbol and Winny, it's a lot.
There is no reason to be so rough on your liver, especially on your first cycle.
Honestly, it's just not needed.
I would increase the Test dose to 500mg/WEEK before I would add Winstrol.

It's VERY important to start out with as few compounds as possible in order to discover how your body reacts to them.
We all react a little differently to every substance, so it just makes it harder for you to know what is doing what when you keep throwing stuff in. 2 compounds for your first cycle is PLENTY.

As far as Liver support, I'm just not sure about the Liv52.
I just don't think there is a lot of science behind most of it's components, but it can't hurt.
I definitely HIGHLY recommend getting some TUDCA.
Milk Thistle is also a great addition to TUDCA for your liver support.
Any research you do will show you that TUDCA, Milk Thistle, and UDCA are the best supps you can take to protect and even regenerate your liver!
If you don't do that, at least drink the cranberry juice, but personally, I don't think that's enough for Dbol.

I'm still a little confused on your planned dosing.
Do you mean a total of 200-250mg/WEEK, or 400-500mg/WEEK? Will you please clear this up for me?
Either way, I would split that into 2 doses just to keep your levels steady.
If you're only running 200-250mg/WEEK, some will say that's not a high enough dose to worry about it, but I would.
Even if you just ran TEST, you would make some really nice gains, because your first cycle is typically gonna be your best.

If you are insistent on adding an oral, Tbol will cause you to hold less water, but Dbol will most likely give you better gains as a "Kickstart".
As far as the Dbol goes, I'm not sure what mg your tabs are.
Either way, I think you should start out at 30mg/ED just to see how you react to it, and go to 40mg/ED your second week if all is well.
If that works out, them you could even bump up to 50mg/WEEK on week 4. That would be BEAST!
I think 4 weeks would give you plenty of time to get what you need out of the Dbol, and by then your Test will be kicked in really well.
Try your best to drink at least 1 gallon of water/ED with the Dbol, but really the entire cycle.
The water retention from the Dbol isn't a bad thing. It's good for your joints.
Mostly all of it will go away during your PCT.

I prefer Arimidex for my A.I.
You can get it from Advanced Supplements as well as any other A.I you prefer.
It is under the name: A-DEX
Save the Clomid/Nolva for PCT.

Here is the link for everything you need. It is actually the store for this board if you didn't know.
https://www.musclechemistry.com/pro...id=52&osCsid=d8bb5a095fab7e91fea81d0d57860551

Presser is the owner, and he will take good care of you.
He is the main reason I decided to stick around on this board, and I have done a lot of business with him.
It's hard to find straight up guys like him these days.
His products are legit, and he ships extremely quick.

Anyway, I like to be safe with everything, and Dbol is notorious for causing significantly increased Estrogen that can lead to Gyno,
so I would recommend taking A-DEX @ .5mg/EOD throughout the entire cycle (especially if you're going to run 400-500mg/WEEK Test.
It won't affect your gains as much as some people will tell you, and it's better to be safe than sorry.

If you really want to add something else to your cycle, you can't go wrong with IGF1-LR3!
It is not an AAS. It is a peptide, and extremely safe to take for very long periods of time.
I plan on taking it from 6 months to a year this time.
It will work synergistically with your Test/Dbol. Meaning, it will compound your results!
It actually Creates New Muscle Cells/Fibers, has fat burning properties that will keep you lean and vascular,
promotes gains will be lean, quality gains that you will not lose, and it will give you pumps in the gym like you've never had!
Basically, it is "The Fountain of Youth", and the best thing since Testosterone!

You can also obtain the IGF at this boards store. Trust me, it's the best you're gonna find anywhere!
If you are unfamiliar with it, there is a wealth of knowledge on this site under the "Peptides" forum,
but I will be more than happy to help you with it if you would like for me to.

Please help me clear up what you are thinking as far as your dosing.
I am happy to help you out.
I hope you run a "Cycle Log". It will benefit you and others in so many ways!
I assure you that you will be happy you did it.

I run a log for every cycle I run.
I always learn something new, and I get to help others out (which I love).
I am running a log of my current cycle if you're interested in taking a look.
Here is the link.
http://www.musclechemistry.com/uplo...prop-tren-ace-sd-dta-igf1-lr3.html#post713526

That's it for now.
It's good to have you here bro!
I love it here, and I feel "at home".
I hope you will as well!

 

[IronJulius]

Thank you for the help. You don't like the winstrol in the cycle at all?
Is that because its my first cycle, or because of the toxicity? I can reduce the dosage.
Originally I was planning on an oral only cycle but I want to get and maintain some decent gains.
Test E is 250mg/ml.

first cycle you are going to get strong as fuck with the tbol/test. winny is hell on the joints/tendons and the chances of injury are higher at your age. im 33 running winny for the first time taking fish oil twice a day and very careful with my training, drinking tons of water and my joints and tendons still hurt/sore. i have got to tell myself before walking into the gym and while training its not worth the injury going so hard which is hard as fuck for a hard head like myself. i would take winstrol with light dose of deca a week on your next cycle. this stuff aint a sprint its a marathon

 

[Pushtoday]

Nikon, Thank you!
I plan on listening to you and IronJulius, No Winstrol I can add it to a future cycle.
Test E 250mg twice a week, 500mg a week for 10 - 12 weeks.
Turanabol (10mg tabs) instead of Dbol, 30-40 mg every day for 4 or 5 weeks, I can ramp it up as you suggest.
I will run an A.I. and liver support throughout.
All advice and suggestions are always appreciated.

 

[Nikon]

Nikon, Thank you!
I plan on listening to you and IronJulius, No Winstrol I can add it to a future cycle.
Test E 250mg twice a week, 500mg a week for 10 - 12 weeks.
Turanabol (10mg tabs) instead of Dbol, 30-40 mg every day for 4 or 5 weeks, I can ramp it up as you suggest.
I will run an A.I. and liver support throughout.
All advice and suggestions are always appreciated.

That's gonna be a GREAT first cycle man!

500mg/WEEK Test will be a really nice dose for your first cycle!

Great choice on the Tbol.
Less side effects, and higher quality gains.
I think 30mg/ED will be fine for the first week to get a "feel" for it, but I would definitely ramp up the dose to 40mg/ED the next week.
Although, I see nothing wrong with starting it out @ 40mg/ED during the first week.
You can go as high as 60mg/ED, but I don't think you will need to go over 50mg/ED.

It has an 8hr half-life, so split into 2 doses. Morning and Dinner.
If you workout in the mornings, it would be best to take it 1 hour before your workout.
I think 6 weeks would be plenty.
It's a lot less harsh than Dbol, so I say go for it!

Like this:
40/40/40/50/50/50 Split 2 x ED
Depending on how it makes you feel.
You will know by the second/third week if you need to go higher.

BTW, Are you considering the IGF1-LR3?
I really think it would benefit you A LOT, especially for your first cycle.
I promise you will love it!
Here's a good read on it.
http://www.musclechemistry.com/uplo...-anabolic-muscle-builder-better-then-hgh.html

Looking good bro!

 

[Pushtoday]

first cycle you are going to get strong as fuck with the tbol/test. winny is hell on the joints/tendons and the chances of injury are higher at your age. im 33 running winny for the first time taking fish oil twice a day and very careful with my training, drinking tons of water and my joints and tendons still hurt/sore. i have got to tell myself before walking into the gym and while training its not worth the injury going so hard which is hard as fuck for a hard head like myself. i would take winstrol with light dose of deca a week on your next cycle. this stuff aint a sprint its a marathon

That's the plan, to get strong as fuck!
I can't afford any injuries, definitely not part of the plan.
I 'm not very good at limiting myself either, I might say I'm going to go easy but then when I go to train it always changes.
I like the marathon concept! Thanks for the help.

 

[Pushtoday]

That's gonna be a GREAT first cycle man!

500mg/WEEK Test will be a really nice dose for your first cycle!

Great choice on the Tbol.
Less side effects, and higher quality gains.
I think 30mg/ED will be fine for the first week to get a "feel" for it, but I would definitely ramp up the dose to 40mg/ED the next week.
Although, I see nothing wrong with starting it out @ 40mg/ED during the first week.
You can go as high as 60mg/ED, but I don't think you will need to go over 50mg/ED.

It has an 8hr half-life, so split into 2 doses. Morning and Dinner.
If you workout in the mornings, it would be best to take it 1 hour before your workout.
I think 6 weeks would be plenty.
It's a lot less harsh than Dbol, so I say go for it!

Like this:
40/40/40/50/50/50 Split 2 x ED
Depending on how it makes you feel.
You will know by the second/third week if you need to go higher.

BTW, Are you considering the IGF1-LR3?
I really think it would benefit you A LOT, especially for your first cycle.
I promise you will love it!
Here's a good read on it.
http://www.musclechemistry.com/uplo...-anabolic-muscle-builder-better-then-hgh.html

Looking good bro!

Since your post I have done some reading on the IGF1-LR3. It almost sounds to good to be true!
But seeing all the posts and reviews from other members I know it must be the real deal.
However at this time I'm already over "budget".
It seems like it might be the way to go right after this cycle.
I do have some questions that I know you can help with.
The MC store has A-dex and Nova-Bloat.
How are they taken? I was going to get my Aromicin and Novadex in pill form.
The A-dex and Nova-bloat seem to be less expensive. If I go with them how much would I need?
And are they as effective as the Aromicin and Novadex?
I'd like to tell you these are the last questions I'll have but I know they wont be:arcade:

 

[Nikon]

Since your post I have done some reading on the IGF1-LR3. It almost sounds to good to be true!
But seeing all the posts and reviews from other members I know it must be the real deal.
However at this time I'm already over "budget".
It seems like it might be the way to go right after this cycle.
I do have some questions that I know you can help with.
The MC store has A-dex and Nova-Bloat.
How are they taken? I was going to get my Aromicin and Novadex in pill form.
The A-dex and Nova-bloat seem to be less expensive. If I go with them how much would I need?
And are they as effective as the Aromicin and Novadex?
I'd like to tell you these are the last questions I'll have but I know they wont be:arcade:

I'll PM you tomorrow with details if that's cool.

 

[Pushtoday]

I'll PM you tomorrow with details if that's cool.

Yessir.

 

[IronJulius]

Since your post I have done some reading on the IGF1-LR3. It almost sounds to good to be true!
But seeing all the posts and reviews from other members I know it must be the real deal.
However at this time I'm already over "budget".
It seems like it might be the way to go right after this cycle.
I do have some questions that I know you can help with.
The MC store has A-dex and Nova-Bloat.
How are they taken? I was going to get my Aromicin and Novadex in pill form.
The A-dex and Nova-bloat seem to be less expensive. If I go with them how much would I need?
And are they as effective as the Aromicin and Novadex?
I'd like to tell you these are the last questions I'll have but I know they wont be:arcade:

ask all the questions you want. pill form is usually more expensive but usually safer as in accurate dosage. MC store has quality products which i do use. IGF is great to use on or off cycle and of coarse MC has the best damn IGF. think about starting new threads with more questions you will probaby get more feedback

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yes Adex and Nolvabloat are as effective from my experience

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actually i havent used nolvabloat but im sure its as effective from all my trusted brothers on here who have used it. adex does work

 

[Pushtoday]

ask all the questions you want. pill form is usually more expensive but usually safer as in accurate dosage. MC store has quality products which i do use. IGF is great to use on or off cycle and of coarse MC has the best damn IGF. think about starting new threads with more questions you will probaby get more feedback

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yes Adex and Nolvabloat are as effective from my experience

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actually i havent used nolvabloat but im sure its as effective from all my trusted brothers on here who have used it. adex does work

Thanks IronJulius, I appreciate your advice. It makes sense to start more threads for different questions.

 

[Nikon]

PM sent bro. That should clear things up.

 

[Nikon]

Hey man, I thought it would be cool to let the other guys know what is going on since we have been communicating through PM.
We still need to clear a few things up.

So, here is what it looks like to me so far:

Test E: 500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500 Split 2 times/Week
I would suggest Sunday and Wed.
It's not gonna make that much of a difference, but your levels will be slightly higher during the week this way.
I'm still not sure. Do you have enough to do 10 or 12 weeks?

Tbol: 30/40/40/40/50/50 Split 2x/ED, Morning (1hr Pre-Workout, if you workout in the AM) and Dinner Time
Still not sure on this either.
How many tabs did you order, and how many mg are they?
We need to know in order to figure dosing and length.
Tbol (great choice) is much safer than Dbol, so you can run it up to 8 weeks, but I think 5-6 weeks would be best.

A.I.= A-DEX: 1mg/EOD for the first 4 weeks (just to be safe), then down to .5mg/EOD for the remainder of the cycle.
Some will say 1mg/EOD will hurt your gains, but I don't think it's a big deal. Better safe than sorry bro!

Liver Support: Cranberry Juice, Liv52. Hopefully 250mg/ED UDCA. Did you get it?

PCT:
NOLVA-BLOAT: 40/40/20/20/10
AQUA-CLO (Clomid): 150/150/100/100/50
That's 5 weeks for PCT which I think should be plenty, but obviously you can go longer if you feel like you need to.

It's looking really good man!
It's cool that you are taking our advice.
A lot of first timers (including myself) are too stubborn to listen.

You have an AWESOME first cycle coming together.
If you eat and train hard, you are going to grow like a weed, and get strong as an OX!
Best of all, it looks like a SAFE cycle with all of the precautions you are taking.

Can't wait to follow your log!

 

[Pushtoday]

Hey man, I thought it would be cool to let the other guys know what is going on since we have been communicating through PM.
We still need to clear a few things up.

So, here is what it looks like to me so far:

Test E: 500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500 Split 2 times/Week
I would suggest Sunday and Wed.
It's not gonna make that much of a difference, but your levels will be slightly higher during the week this way.
I'm still not sure. Do you have enough to do 10 or 12 weeks?

Tbol: 30/40/40/40/50/50 Split 2x/ED, Morning (1hr Pre-Workout, if you workout in the AM) and Dinner Time
Still not sure on this either.
How many tabs did you order, and how many mg are they?
We need to know in order to figure dosing and length.
Tbol (great choice) is much safer than Dbol, so you can run it up to 8 weeks, but I think 5-6 weeks would be best.

A.I.= A-DEX: 1mg/EOD for the first 4 weeks (just to be safe), then down to .5mg/EOD for the remainder of the cycle.
Some will say 1mg/EOD will hurt your gains, but I don't think it's a big deal. Better safe than sorry bro!

Liver Support: Cranberry Juice, Liv52. Hopefully 250mg/ED UDCA. Did you get it?

PCT:
NOLVA-BLOAT: 40/40/20/20/10
AQUA-CLO (Clomid): 150/150/100/100/50
That's 5 weeks for PCT which I think should be plenty, but obviously you can go longer if you feel like you need to.

It's looking really good man!
It's cool that you are taking our advice.
A lot of first timers (including myself) are too stubborn to listen.

You have an AWESOME first cycle coming together.
If you eat and train hard, you are going to grow like a weed, and get strong as an OX!
Best of all, it looks like a SAFE cycle with all of the precautions you are taking.

Can't wait to follow your log!

I will have enough Test to do 10 weeks
Tbol is going to be 150 10mg tabs
Milk thistle , Liv52, no udca/tudca as of yet for liver support.
A-dex, Nova, And Clo, for AI and PCT
Hopefully everything comes together in the next few weeks so I can start JULY
Thanks Again for all the advice and guidance.
The MC members have really been good to me so far.

 

[Nikon]

I will have enough Test to do 10 weeks
Tbol is going to be 150 10mg tabs
Milk thistle , Liv52, no udca/tudca as of yet for liver support.
A-dex, Nova, And Clo, for AI and PCT
Hopefully everything comes together in the next few weeks so I can start JULY
Thanks Again for all the advice and guidance.
The MC members have really been good to me so far.

10 weeks will be plenty for your first cycle bro.

So, you can run the Tbol @
40/40/40/40/40
Or
40/40/40/50
Either will be fine, but I think it might be better to just run it at 40mg for 5 weeks.
It's hard to say if there would be much of a difference.
I'd be interested to hear what the other guys have to say on this.

40mg is a moderate dose, and personally I think you would have done much better with 200 tabs.
That way you could have ran it at 50mg/ED for a couple weeks, but I'm sure you'll still get some lean gains from it on top of 500mg/Week of Test.

Tbol isn't incredibly harsh on the liver, so you'll probably be okay without the TUDCA if you can't afford it.
It definitely wouldn't hurt to take it though.
Some guys take it during PCT, so you could always do that if you come up with more cash later.
The link I sent you is a really good price on it, especially to keep your liver healthy.
It will do A LOT more for you than the herbs.

Same with the IGF.
It is great for PCT, because It will help you to keep all of your hard earned gains.
It may even add a bit, but it will definitely increase your performance in the gym while performing PCT.
It will help to lean you out and increase vascularity, motivate you with those crazy pumps, and help you to maintain your strength.
Not to mention that it will also drop your balls...
That's one of the nice things about IGF.
I have always ran it on cycle, so my balls have never shrunken.
Everyone is different though.
Anyway, I'm sure Presser will still take care of you on the IGF even if you wait a couple months since you're getting the ancillaries from him.
You will just have to remind him, and drop my name.

AI and PCT looks great!

Looks like you're pretty much set bro!
I'm excited for you.
It should be a great ride!