I'm currently using QV products. 250 Test and 200 EQ in the 10 vials. We ordered half of what we needed then we ordered the other half to finish. The first batch we got was cool, no pain - good gains. Now the second batch, wowza. I'm thinking taking a bullet to the leg couldn't be that much worse. I had to skip yesterday's workout (bi's, tri's) 'cause I was afraid I couldn't stand with the weights. It's all good, the etreme pain only lasts about 3 days, then the moderate - mild pain lasts for another 4 days.