When it affects their money steam they will make a change. It's all about the $$$$$$$
NO MORE NFL
I guess I'll be the lone dissenting opinion....
The interesting thing in this thread is that everyone seems to forget one thing - There are soldiers and veterans that *support* them *because* they are using the rights that said soldiers fought for. They aren't disrespecting the anthem - they are just not supporting it fully. Are they shitting on a flag? Are they mooning people during the anthem? No, they are just doing what every school-kid in America has had legally stated they can do - not stand for the Anthem. In fact, the *Army* football team took a knee recently in support, so it's interesting that even some of our military personnel agree they have the right to do so. With respect to standing up to the POTUS...well, when someone is acting like a bully, overstepping his authority and, in fact, violating his *own* oath, by refusing to support the constitution he swore to uphold, by saying they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights, *and* going against the US Supreme court by saying that they should be *forced* to stand, well, sorry, he deserves to be ignored and rebelled against. I'd bet good folding money that 99% of the people screaming about how these players are disrespecting the anthem or the flag are sitting on their fat asses swilling beer as the anthem plays - not standing - why should the *players* have any less rights than the viewers? I'm all for forcing the players, if we give power to the government to see if *you* are doing it too. Also, I doubt 80% of the population is against this...80% of hardcore Trump Supporters, perhaps. but no matter what he says, they *aren't* the majority of the population. It's interesting to note that Mcarthyism is still alive and well in the USA - Love it (and love means agree with every single thing and don't dissent against anything, oh, and if you're black, remember your place) or leave it - wasn't that the motto? Interesting that a group of people who knowingly and willingly flout US regulations (for those in the US) because they think they are stupid regulations have no issue with forcing others to follow what *you* think are important rules (that aren't even rules)
The interesting thing in this thread is that everyone seems to forget one thing - There are soldiers and veterans that *support* them *because* they are using the rights that said soldiers fought for. They aren't disrespecting the anthem - they are just not supporting it fully. Are they shitting on a flag? Are they mooning people during the anthem? No, they are just doing what every school-kid in America has had legally stated they can do - not stand for the Anthem. In fact, the *Army* football team took a knee recently in support, so it's interesting that even some of our military personnel agree they have the right to do so. With respect to standing up to the POTUS...well, when someone is acting like a bully, overstepping his authority and, in fact, violating his *own* oath, by refusing to support the constitution he swore to uphold, by saying they shouldn't be allowed to exercise their first amendment rights, *and* going against the US Supreme court by saying that they should be *forced* to stand, well, sorry, he deserves to be ignored and rebelled against. I'd bet good folding money that 99% of the people screaming about how these players are disrespecting the anthem or the flag are sitting on their fat asses swilling beer as the anthem plays - not standing - why should the *players* have any less rights than the viewers? I'm all for forcing the players, if we give power to the government to see if *you* are doing it too. Also, I doubt 80% of the population is against this...80% of hardcore Trump Supporters, perhaps. but no matter what he says, they *aren't* the majority of the population. It's interesting to note that Mcarthyism is still alive and well in the USA - Love it (and love means agree with every single thing and don't dissent against anything, oh, and if you're black, remember your place) or leave it - wasn't that the motto? Interesting that a group of people who knowingly and willingly flout US regulations (for those in the US) because they think they are stupid regulations have no issue with forcing others to follow what *you* think are important rules (that aren't even rules)
Masher59
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
POTUS did not overstep his boundaries by giving his opinion on it so very wrong there. The players do have a right to be bums of course as long as the league and the team owners allow it. One thing you are missing is that they are employees so the first amendment does not apply to them. If my team is worth 5 billion today and my players kneeling make it worth 4 billion in three months then you can be damn sure I'm going to do something about it. The NFL policy is stand for the anthem with helmet under left arm and no talking (roughly) and violators will be fined and the team could lose draft pics. It's awesome how the liberals have turned patriotism into a bad thing but we creep further down the rabbit hole. Let the fines start rolling in and we will see how many of them are kneeling because of black issues and how many are kneeling just to snub POTUS.
On another note I loved LeBron chiming in with his feelings on the issue. How about just play basketball and try to catch the greatest of all time Jordan. Because you aren't even close at this point bum.
If you are a business owner today it's very smart to keep your mouth shut about your ideology. You will immediately piss off half the country by expressing your views publicly.
Which is part of the problem. Everyone gets passed of if someone does something they have a right to do, but you don't like. Goes both ways - the right screaming about taking a knee, and the left screaming about people saying things they don't like. When the President's opinion is that exercising their rights is somehow wrong - yes he's overstepping. He is sworn to uphold the constitution, even when it means something he does not personally like. Say you don't like it, but it's their right. Don't shoot off your big mouth about how they should all be fired...
Masher59
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
He's only overstepping if the NFL does not enforce their own rules. Once again as employees the first amendment doesn't apply to you. When you are on the clock you represent your employer and they deem what is and is not acceptable. It would have helped if Slaperdick wasn't the first to do it and wearing the cop pig socks was pretty ignorant. I was glad to hear that the Colt players have actually went out into their communities and met with law enforcement to begin a dialogue. Now that is a much more productive way to get traction about an the issue. I don't know if they are still kneeling or not because I haven't watched any games. There are quite a few businesses around here that aren't broadcasting the games because of it so we go spend money at their places on Sundays.
Rot-Iron66
New member
This^^
Bunch of hypocrites. Refuse the million dollar paychecks from the rich, white owners. Or donate it to the oppressed folk who are getting roughed up by cops (as they commit crimes).
Plenty they can do,than act like spoiled children. They are in a work place, people need to remember that.
The cops that are surrounding the stadiums to protect them, send them home lets the millionaire tards protect themselves.
NFL players :finger:
Bunch of hypocrites. Refuse the million dollar paychecks from the rich, white owners. Or donate it to the oppressed folk who are getting roughed up by cops (as they commit crimes).
Plenty they can do,than act like spoiled children. They are in a work place, people need to remember that.
The cops that are surrounding the stadiums to protect them, send them home lets the millionaire tards protect themselves.
NFL players :finger:
I was pissed at first, now I just laugh at them. Watch all of them change their mind as soon as it starts to effect their bank accounts. The old boy that started it all just said that he would stand if he could play. Poor baby.
MLK would be ashamed of them.
MLK would be ashamed of them.
Well, actually the first amendment *does* still apply to you - as the *only* thing the first amendment does is protect you from is the *government*. Your employer can still have their own rules. I am not saying that the NFL can't fine them, or fire them - but *legally* they can't *force* them to stand. The decision to accept the associated punishment is up to the players. I still say *anyone* has the right to protest - but that like all actions, there is a consequence. Of course, that works both ways. If the NFL decides to go hard-nosed and say "If you don't stand, you're fired", what happens if the players truly believe in the cause, and chose to kneel anyway. The NFL must then follow through on their actions, and fire them as they said they would. If *enough* players (or all) decide that the cause is more important than their job, then the team forfeits - as they have no players. Also, since they have no players, they have no way to punish them - as they are no longer their employees. What if enough players believe strongly enough that they kneel at the superbowl? The whole NFL money machine grinds to a halt then and there.....No broadcast - they have to refund the insane ad slot payments, the whole hoopla of superbowl crashes to the ground - all because *some* people - who don't like having systemic racism in the USA pointed out and protested decided to *lie* and claim this was about disrespecting the flag, or soldiers, or whatever gives them the most support today - might change tomorrow. Were the people protesting a stupid war in Vietnam disrespecting the troops, or *respecting* them, by fighting to end a useless fight that was killing *off* the very same troops? If the argument is that your rights are subordinate to your duties at your job, why were people cheering when that stupid woman refused to grant marriage licenses, an act *required* by her job, *and* in violation of a court order that ordered her to do so. Was she not "protesting" by exercising her "freedom of religion" rights? If she wasn't doing her job properly because of her beliefs...why was she being cheered? On a side note - it has been dis-proven that they must stand - it is *suggested* but *NOT* a rule.
Masher59
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Agreed on a few points, they do not have to stand but they are about to get pecker slapped if they don't. Check out what's going on with the Cowboys right now. They have been told by their owner that they will stand or they wont play. They were also told they are not to comment on it and the reporters are hawking them getting no comment answers over and over. I can assure you these guys aren't mad enough at POTUS to give up their paychecks or jobs. If they were actually protesting an issue it would be one thing but they aren't. They got their teeny feelings hurt by POTUS so they are only kneeling to get at him. This shows how big of babies they really are also. Also the woman was wrong with the marriage licenses because the law had changed and she had to legally grant the licences. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I hope they end their spat with POTUS soon because it's childish.
First of all, there is no systemic racism in this country. Actually, I take that back. There IS: the affirmative action laws, that require a certain number of blacks, Hispanics, whatever race, be included in school admissions; be hired in government, etc; the "Congressional Black Caucus" - all of that shit is racist. It's based solely on RACE, and therefore is RACIST. Get it?
Protesting against police brutality against blacks is called selective amnesia. It disregards the execution style murders of cops by Hispanic and black gangs, for example. Why isn't that equally - or more - outrageous? How about if the NFL players protest that??? Instead, they choose to disrespect the entire nation for what they see as a problem in LA. At least that's the starting point.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the NBA - predominantly black - has a rule that they must stand respectfully for the National Anthem. Note that the NBA champions declined to accept the invitation to dine at the White House with the president. Certainly insulting, and I felt offended personally, even though it has nothing to do with me and I don't give a flying fuck about basketball. But there's no real flap about it anywhere.
But this disrespect for one's country is unacceptable. There was an article in the local paper here about a high school game during which some players knelt. So yes, it's trickling down and the youth of America is being influenced to disrespect America! Worse, a father and son referee pair walked off the field in protest and THEY are receiving negative attention! WTF???? It's OK for the PLAYERS - who in this case are MINORS and who should be subject to behavioral standards - but not ok for a pair of adults to protest in SUPPORT of their country???
I'm sure even you, Doc 9, can see the double standard being implemented there.
It doesn't matter how you slice it, justify it or otherwise make excuses: this is the United States of America - "indivisible", as we say in the Pledge of Allegiance - remember the Pledge?? When the BLACK, leftist, anti-American president was elected for two terms - if that doesn't demonstrate that there is no systemic anti-black racism in this country, what will??? - there were a whole lot of us in this country who didn't like it. Not because he is black, but because he is anti-American; wanted to "remake" America in the model of socialist Europe - and made large strides in that direction - amd because he sowed an awful lot of racial division. But did those of us incessantly protest??? Nope. We elected Trump. That's how this Representative Republic - NOT "democracy" - works.
Love it or leave it. I've felt that way for decades.
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Affirmative action policies were put in place *because* of systematic racism - you do know it wasn't *that* long ago, that African-Americans weren't even allowed *into* some schools, and jobs, etc. The laws were changed - you think that makes it any easier for them to get in? Unless you specifically tell someone they didn't get in because of the colour of their skin, you can pretty much carry on with segregation, just disguised as something else. Now, I've never agreed with policies that insist on a certain percentage, but yes, I think there should be a system in place to compensate for the fact that people and society don't change on a dime just because the law does. How many people do you know that went from fighting tooth and nail against Same-sex-marriage who suddenly loved it because it was now the law of the land? I bet absolutely none - yet, it's now the law.
Yes, there was an African-American president. How did some "good Americans" react to that? Let's see - making it official party platform to block every single one of his initiatives - *even* those that were recognized to be for the good of the country as a whole (as leaked by retiring members of the GOP - that was the party line). Some people referred to him as the "******-in-chief" - no racism there, of course. Let's not get into the whole referring to his wife as a ape, or the fact that there are still people who are convinced that everything bad that happened was his fault - even when he was cleaning up the mess caused by the previous "white republican" that they so desired as President. Then there is the DOJ who even *themselves* admits that African-Americans are more frequently jailed for crimes that "white folk" get off for, and the fact that # of African-Americans shot by cops "fearing for their lives" is statistically out of line with the percentage of the population, *and* the fact that with increasing bodycam usage, we are seeing more and more footage of the cops doing despicable, evil, and flat-out illegal acts with respect to African-American suspects. (I.e. stomping on the head of someone who is kneeling, handcuffed, and not doing anything - no tendency to treat them differently at all ...no...no...) Given the *historical* behaviour of mainly white cops in the USA to Hispanics and African-Americans, I'm not surprised at all that some have been killed execution style, in fact, I'm surprised there haven't been more! It's like killing a rabid dog that keeps attacking people, since we keep seeing many incidents of flat out racist cops behaving more like criminals than cops, getting away with it, and their white coworkers not encouraging, but not stopping them either. (Mind you, that's more of a problem with the gang-like police *union* - we have the same problem in Canada - good cops don't stop bad cops for fear of reprisal, because they expect all cops to support all other cops no matter how criminal their actions)
One can love one's country *without* being in agreement with everything it does. It is, in fact, one's *duty* as a citizen to try to make one's country better, and to protest those actions and behaviours that are seen to be wrong, and to try to improve them, and sometimes that means a symbolic act act that other people don't agree with. I'm sure Rosa Parks offended a whack-load of people by not knowing her place, and refusing to give up the seat she took on the bus, but she was right to do what she did. Would you have told her "You don't like segregation - leave"?
Yes, there was an African-American president. How did some "good Americans" react to that? Let's see - making it official party platform to block every single one of his initiatives - *even* those that were recognized to be for the good of the country as a whole (as leaked by retiring members of the GOP - that was the party line). Some people referred to him as the "******-in-chief" - no racism there, of course. Let's not get into the whole referring to his wife as a ape, or the fact that there are still people who are convinced that everything bad that happened was his fault - even when he was cleaning up the mess caused by the previous "white republican" that they so desired as President. Then there is the DOJ who even *themselves* admits that African-Americans are more frequently jailed for crimes that "white folk" get off for, and the fact that # of African-Americans shot by cops "fearing for their lives" is statistically out of line with the percentage of the population, *and* the fact that with increasing bodycam usage, we are seeing more and more footage of the cops doing despicable, evil, and flat-out illegal acts with respect to African-American suspects. (I.e. stomping on the head of someone who is kneeling, handcuffed, and not doing anything - no tendency to treat them differently at all ...no...no...) Given the *historical* behaviour of mainly white cops in the USA to Hispanics and African-Americans, I'm not surprised at all that some have been killed execution style, in fact, I'm surprised there haven't been more! It's like killing a rabid dog that keeps attacking people, since we keep seeing many incidents of flat out racist cops behaving more like criminals than cops, getting away with it, and their white coworkers not encouraging, but not stopping them either. (Mind you, that's more of a problem with the gang-like police *union* - we have the same problem in Canada - good cops don't stop bad cops for fear of reprisal, because they expect all cops to support all other cops no matter how criminal their actions)
One can love one's country *without* being in agreement with everything it does. It is, in fact, one's *duty* as a citizen to try to make one's country better, and to protest those actions and behaviours that are seen to be wrong, and to try to improve them, and sometimes that means a symbolic act act that other people don't agree with. I'm sure Rosa Parks offended a whack-load of people by not knowing her place, and refusing to give up the seat she took on the bus, but she was right to do what she did. Would you have told her "You don't like segregation - leave"?
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Pro Quest Nutrition
New member
Pro Quest Nutrition
New member
Sounds like a bunch of "Liberal Talking Points" when in reality the facts, statistics say otherwise. Nothing to do with aligning with my political views, it just does not align with common sense.
First of all, I didn't realize you live in Canada. So let me get this straight: You're passionately railing against the President of the United States of America; against what you perceive as racism in America; against Republicans in America; and you're not even American???? That's rich....
Nevertheless, I will attempt to help you understand a few things.
You brought up gay marriage. Whivh is totally unrelated to the current discussion about the despicable, anti-American protests by the NFL - and yes, I am blanketing the entire NFL because of Roger Goodell's stated position on this issue. However, the gay marriage thing is pretty instructive. First of all, I don't know a soul who was against it - I am against it, by the way - who now professes to love it. Second, there have been some states who have - by the voting process - decided to define marriage as between a man and woman. Texas was one. Under the United States governmental structure - that of united states which have their own government and their own STATES' RIGHTS, that is a perfectly normal, allowable thing to happen. What is NOT allowable under the US Constitution, is what the Obama administration, through the leftist, activist Supreme Court did, which was declare the Texas statute - which was legally and constitutionally created - "unconstitutional". This same thing has played out in other states which have been forced to recognoze gay marriages performed in states which decided to legitimize gay marriages. So, the federal government - Obama - forced its will on the States, AGAINST their will. THAT is unconstitutional. It is illegal. It is an abuse of power on the part of the Supreme Court, which at the time was heavily tilted to the left. There is no majority in America that thinks gay marriage should be legal. There are numerous states where this is the case; just as there are numerous states where it is not. This is an issue that should have been - indeed, is Constitutionally REQUIRED to have been - left to the STATES. There should be no "law of the land" on this issue.
Another thing: you think Obama cleaned up some kind of mess??? The national debt increased under Obama more than all prior administrations COMBINED because of his leftist, liberal policies. And you think he cleaned something up???
There is SO much more I want to say on this, but I'm outta time....
The Survivor
Active member
I think americans are sick & tired of the left telling us that our country sucks. Not to get off point but Trump knows how to work people. He knows as course as he get can that most people like the kind of talk that the established career politicians cant seem to understand. He speaks in plain terms....also when he does something say bizarre, the leftys like Maxine Waters, Elizabeth Warren and SHarpton all go kinda nuts and start to gyrate and yell & scream etc, which energizes the base BUT the independant's, the ones sitting on the fence, look at the aforementioned and think Wow do I really want to be associated with these nutjobs? Then they swing right and trump wins as counter intuitive as it may sound
Interesting - so I'm basing my statements on facts, and so are you - which facts do you have that contradict what I have said? Do you have facts showing that the justice system, from cops to judges, treat african-americans exactly the same as Caucasians? That in the absence of programs to improve their access, they will have *exactly* the same acceptance rates based *solely* on performance? If so, those facts seem to contradict the government's *own* facts, and the myriad of studies done with the same data with different names/pictures attached.
The fact that they sound like liberal talking points is probably because liberals talk about it...while conservatives deny it exists, and therefore *don't* talk about it. The fact that liberals talk about it doesn't make them false, however. The other problem is "common sense" when applied to something people prefer to ignore, tends to fail miserably. In the 19th century, common sense said that blacks were an inferior race, that we were *helping* them by using them as slaves and by restricting what they could do. If we treated them like people, society would fall apart. The people supporting slavery, and later, segregration, couldn't all be wrong, or biased, or bigoted, or simply lying, that went against all common sense. Sadly, common sense was wrong there too.
The fact that they sound like liberal talking points is probably because liberals talk about it...while conservatives deny it exists, and therefore *don't* talk about it. The fact that liberals talk about it doesn't make them false, however. The other problem is "common sense" when applied to something people prefer to ignore, tends to fail miserably. In the 19th century, common sense said that blacks were an inferior race, that we were *helping* them by using them as slaves and by restricting what they could do. If we treated them like people, society would fall apart. The people supporting slavery, and later, segregration, couldn't all be wrong, or biased, or bigoted, or simply lying, that went against all common sense. Sadly, common sense was wrong there too.
Pro Quest Nutrition
New member
Yes, I think Obama Doubled The National Debt in just his term as President. So for those who are not clear on this, from the time of George Washington our first President of the United States all through every president up to George W. Bush , Obama Doubled the debt of the first 43 presidents, and Obama was 44th President lmao
So the combined debt of 43 Presidents from 1789 through 2009, was Doubled with Obamas two term span of 2009-2017. Thats a whole lot of Obama Phones!
So the combined debt of 43 Presidents from 1789 through 2009, was Doubled with Obamas two term span of 2009-2017. Thats a whole lot of Obama Phones!
Pro Quest Nutrition
New member
Do you have Facts stating Minorities are Not more prone to criminal activity and Violence than their Asian and Cracker counterparts?? Maybe its not the justice system , maybe some people are more prone to certain activities than others. Just as some races on average have a higher Intelligence Quotient then others.
EMW14 - I too would like to discuss it more - but this discussion *is* dragging the NFL thread off topic, no argument there.
*Should* you wish to continue the discussion, I'm more than willing to do it as PM's.
I'm a firm believer in discussing differences - we may never agree on everything - but I'm sure there are certain things we can agree on - some I might even agree with you!
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Pro quest: Actually, he increased the total debt by 68% (Just looked it up) Bush Jr. increased it 101% from the Clinton era, and Obama was trying to dig out of the mess caused by the entirely predictable (to non-bankers) housing bubble crash.
*Should* you wish to continue the discussion, I'm more than willing to do it as PM's.
I'm a firm believer in discussing differences - we may never agree on everything - but I'm sure there are certain things we can agree on - some I might even agree with you!
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Pro quest: Actually, he increased the total debt by 68% (Just looked it up) Bush Jr. increased it 101% from the Clinton era, and Obama was trying to dig out of the mess caused by the entirely predictable (to non-bankers) housing bubble crash.
