other interesting post from that thread....
For every guy who takes a moderate amount there is a guy like my friend who takes a massive amount (albeit ugl gear)...a gram of test a day and 150mgs of tren a day...gh I usually 10ius a day and intermittent use of insulin...he got to 320 at his largest...competed are 250-265 at the jr nationals (6 or 7th) and the same placing at the jr usa's placing roughly the same. The year he did nationals he didn't make the top 15. I don't think this is commonplace but there are a few who make up for genetics with gear use...and than te hyper reaponder using 750mgs of test and some dbol and blows everyone away.
From Magnum ---
Yep, a little bit of deca can turn some people into a freak.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45gT5fu5PKU9u8[/media]
On a more serious note, another thing to me that makes no sense is when people try to tie in a drug dose in relationship to how someone places at a show. There are a lot of genetic freaks out there that never place high simply because they never diet right. Just because someone places high in a national show or even turns pro doesn't mean that they have great genetics. Maybe that particular show lacked some good competitors or a top fav didn't peak right and the title went to a lesser gifted individual.
Turning pro is a lot of different factors, not just how much drugs you take. A person can use 750 mgs of test 400 deca 10 iu's of slin and 6 to 8 iu's of GH and easily be a top national guy with the right genetics. If you need to triple these amounts just to walk around at 250 then take up something else like checkers or poker. Bottom line is forget about what anyone else is doing, start low and go slow and gradually go up in dose over a long period of time and see how things go.
Last piece of advise that no one asked for. If you are really serious about getting big then STAY LEAN and watch your diet. You can't see what you are building when you're a fat ass!!!!!!!
Another response ---
I feel that everybody's body is different. My workout partner did nationals last yr. He competed as light heavywght. His cycles are very mild compared to others. Then again, he has crazy genetics and eats like a champ. Other guys with shittier genetics or that dont know how to eat and train properly end up having to take more to cut corners. Personally, I feel that your diet is the most important factor...you are what you eat! I believe these idiots when they claim ridiculous cycles because they are in a hurry to reach that level, but they should just stop for one second and realize there arent any shortcuts in bodybuilding. We all have access to the same food, gym equipment, gear, etc. Its the person who wants it the most and puts all these factors to use to the best of his ability who comes out on top. Heck, look at dorian and lou ferrigno when they first got started. You telling me these guys had good genetics? No! Dorian trained like his life was on the line. He was a warrior and as a result his efforts were rewarded.
From DC ---
IN the short run no.....in the long run over a lifting career....I ABSOLUTELY 100% agree with you....and it also would probably be 1000% safer healthwise.
Here is the problem...everyone loves to load up on juice and get large real quick.....bodybuilding is always about
1) Todays workout...I must annihilate myself in todays workout
2) Juice-I got to hit massive amounts of juice this week and the following 8 to 20 weeks to get as big as possible (even though it is fleeting gains in alot of cases)
Now if you want to talk about using food as an anabolic to gain bigtime muscle mass, using gh to stay lean while doing so, using testosterone as a low dose helper in that process....and having the mindset that you are patient to get to the end result and dont have to blow up full of 30 pounds of water in the next 8 weeks (<----that right there wipes out 95% of the bodybuilding world who wants it yesterday)
IMO with a little bit of test in the mix, and a diet thats all about producing muscle mass.....GH not only allows you to put on muscle mass and stay lean but there is something very very magical about GH that allows you to hold onto a standard of muscle mass in the long run that is unnatainable by using juice alone.
i.e. Lifter 1 blasts up with huge amounts of juice and gets huge and watery quick and in a short time period is 260....everytime he goes down in dosage to TRT/HRT amounts or (off) he disenegrates and loses gobs of muscle mass and loses weight like crazy
i.e. Lifter 2 uses low dose test as a primer with gh daily with a very smart progressive diet that is cued to using food as an anabolic....it takes this guy longer to get to 260...maybe even years....but take it to the bank....when this guy stays at TRT dosages with test with low dose GH.....he will stay big and have alot of muscle mass with a good diet/smart training because again IMO GH does something longterm to someones set point of muscle mass they can hold.
Do i believe that alot of guys on this board would have had heart attacks, blood clots, health problems etc etc etc if they used TRT around 200 to 400mg a week with 1-3 IUS of gh a day with a progressive mass producing diet and heavy progressive training......IMO NO....definitely not compared to the first route above.....because low dose GH effects on the blood is pretty minimal....and the only thing you really need to worry dire effects wise is "situations" which come with high gh dosage along with high juice dosage....which have been talked about previously on that curcumin thread.
(Dr Intensity...again and I really feel like I shouldnt have to say this....but please dont cut and paste this on other boards)
another one from DC ---
#76 (permalink) 07-20-2010, 06:48 PM
DOGGCRAPP
Kilo Klub Member Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigswole88
I met this National Level NPC amateur at a show last weekend and talked to him about how much he uses he claims to be using this much currently....
Test E 2400mg a week
Tren E 1000mg a week
EQ 600mg a week
Anadrol 100-150mg a day
Insulin 10 Ius Post Workout
Do u guys think he's being realistic or he's full of shit?? He qualified for nationals...he's about 5'7 230-235lbs
So he is 5'7" 230-235 and using this above while a pro that I think uses too much personally (im typing this one out because you guys always think I only talk about people who use low dosages....so im doing this on purpose) but is one of the freakiest looking guys to come down the pike in the last 20 years......does this exactly
1600 mg test
600mg deca
50mg dball
8ius of gh a day
(exactly and I do mean exactly)
and weighs 300 offseason and looks cartoonish onstage at 260 plus..... (and no he hasnt won MR Olympia)
Quite the difference there in physiques (the guy you mentioned wouldnt even compare to the pro i named....I dont even have to know the guy you are talking about....thats how supra freaky the pro is)....yet your guy is using so much more and you didnt even include the number of IU's of gh he is using which i would suppose is also a large amount since he is using large amounts of everything else.
another DC post --
Originally Posted by joshbarnett
DC- what GH dose do you feel is optimal to maintain those long term muscle mass gains with moderate T? 8iu? or is 4iu over the long term enough for most?
I dont want to say....I want to prove it to everybody instead...because I cannot stand these continual arguments about this subject...Im going to prove it to everyone instead.
So for every guy in his forum who has been blasting stuff for a while and doesnt really know what to do with himself...been on large amounts for a long time, scared to get off totally...but knows its time to do something less because he is scared for his health.....do this
Hypothetically of course for sake of discussion:
go down to 200 to 300mg of week of ONLY testosterone nothing else (and we both know that all you guys reading this have been doing way more than that)......do 100-150mg on sunday and 100-150mg on wenesday....do 250ius to 500ius of Hcg on saturday and tuesday the days previous .....and do 1-2 IUS of gh every day
and you tell me....because i dont want some hypothetical argument of why you disagree with me right now.....YOU TELL ME.....where you are in three months or 6 months when you continued to eat good and train good and to do cardio....
What did you lose? a watery 6-10 pounds? a little less hard? Probably...but
Didnt exactly drop down 30-40 pounds did you? Still look like you like to look dont you?
Make the goal this : HMMM how much can i keep on the outline of 200-300mg of test a week and 1-2ius of gh a day.....im going to eat good and train hard still....thats my promise to myself.
For every guy who does this above....please have the memory of coming back in here in 3-6 months and saying "you know what Dante...it worked...you were right....I'm still up there, a big boy, and pretty lean"
because I allready know it will work.
