Juiced all year round?

[Skip]

Okay, I am not so edgy tonight so I will give my opinions here.

First, props to Mr. DP Squat. I, too, laughed out loud at that. However, my wife DID have a few choice "yum yum" things to say about you when she saw your picture in the NPC news a while back. However, that is another thread entirely. lol

Let's see....... Where to start?.........

First, I don't give two shits what anyone thinks about my reasons for being on most all the time. I have done my research and think I know my body well enough that I can determine what is in my best interest. So, I won't be offended or hurt in any way if anyone disagrees with me. I obviously don't appreciate personal attacks about my intelligence but that is another thread entirely......

Also, remember that I am a competitive bodybuilder. This might seem obvious to most but I need to point this out because my use may seem haphazard to someone that doesn't compete or know the ins and outs of gear use by competitive bodybuilders.

Secondly, I don't believe that anyone's htpa will shut down and never come up. I am yet to see this, hear of this (from anyone deemed reliable or credible) or experience this. I do believe that it MAY take longer for the htpa to recover after coming off but on the other hand I have known many guys that have been on for years and showed test levels within the normal ranges after 6 months of being off.

In response to Mr. Steed's words of wisdom, I don't know what to say. lol Aren't you a young guy? Teenager or something? I am not slamming you but I am pretty sure you are young and pretty inexperienced to be giving out advise that has anything in it that says " it is not my 2 cents, it is the truth". You don't know the truth anymore than I do. However, I think it is safe to say I have a bit more experience than you do.

Enlarged heart? Could happen but this also happens from training as was already stated. Prostate problems? This is probably the biggest possibility but I do use proscar to help with the DHT conversion. Irregular heartbeat? I don't see how that could be connected to aas. I suppose it could be but things like clen and such would have a much better chance of causing this than would regular aas.

Supersport - you are the closest as far as my reasons for staying on.

I don't do huge dosages. I prefer the lower doses for long periods of time. I run only 2 drugs at one time during the offseason - test is always in there and usually either EQ or Deca with it. I use no orals until it is within the last 8-10 weeks of my contest prep as I hate them. I think they are dangerous and they have the most potential to phuk up your health than any of the other anabolics.

I prefer the longer cycles for the same reasons that most guys complain of shorter cycles - ie: gain and loss of muscle throughout the year; emotional rollercoaster throughout the year; overall "balance" of the body's systems, etc..

Short cycle guys have to deal with their blood levels constantly going up and down which messes with you emotionally. I am on an even, level emotional plane until the latter weeks of precontest (and that is from dieting more than gear). I run less of a risk, in my opinion, of injuring myself - specifically tendon injury, as my poundages stay high instead of going up and down all year. As for "balance" of the body's systems, I would liken this to drinking 2 beers a day for a year or getting hammered for 6 weeks straight. I think the 'suicide' cycles that I see alot of guys doing ( a ton of gear in a very short amount of time) wreaks havoc on their systems as the body is simply not accustomed to the intake of all the gear. The liver has to work double time right along with the kidneys and heart (among others). I feel that being on all the time allows my body to adjust and be better able to handle the lower dosages without the shock to the sytem.

The only negative that I see with staying on all the time is immunosuppression. I do wonder if my immune system is compromised as I get sick off of my shows. However, this is almost certainly due to my pushing the envelope with my prep, also. One is no more unhealthy than the other.

About the 'nuts' thing: I have 3 kids and couldn't care less if I ever spit out another sperm again and neither would my wife of 12 years. In fact, it is quite a solid form of birth control and has been for awhile. You might say " hey! be careful, my buddy's buddy's brother's momma got pregnant and her boyfriend was "on" at the time....... blah blah blah". He probably wasn't on as long as I am. My sperm count is probably in the negative. In fact, if anyone thinks otherwise, I could cum in your mouth and you could tell me if you taste any sperm. LOL Okay, sorry about that one. hehe
Do I care if my htpa comes back on line? Sure. Do I think it will? Yes. Will it take longer than usual? Probably. Do I constantly grow throughout the weeks? Yup. Do my receptors become unresponsive after a certain time of being on? LOL Yeah, that was funny. *sigh*

I have regular blood work done and it has never come back outside of normal ranges even one time. I did have a blood pressure problem about a year ago. However, I was 261 pounds and that is EXACTLY why it was so high. I immediately dropped 32 pounds and it was back to normal (BP). My cholesterol has always been good, too. I eat pretty clean even in the offseason, now, and I rarely if ever drink and do not do any rec drugs of any kind. That being said, don't kick out how bad staying on all the time is if you are tossing back the drinks every weekend or doing a little rec stuff on the side as alot of "bodybuilders" do. It is funny to me when guys throw back beers while on cycle. So, if you do this, please refrain from throwing a stone or your glass house may break.

You know what my biggest concern is with my health? I have eaten 400-500g of protein everyday for the past 3.5 years. THAT concerns me.

My best advice is advice I received a long time ago and I am glad I did: Do NOT take what someone says as rule. Try it out yourself and see for YOURSELF how it works. I could squash 10 pages of alleged "myths" in bodybuilding from gear to nutriotion and training that have long been considered "rule". Why? Because I tried them and proved to myself that they work or don't work.

Ahhh, I feel so much better now. hehe

Skip's Out.

 

[supersport]

Bravo skip! By the way guys the line to test Skip's sperm count is on the left...LOL

I really like the reasoning, and if you have never had problems on a blood test that adds more credence to your position. I am real curious about how often and when you use HCG and Clomid (if you do) and anything else to stimulate endogenous test production. The year round thing is looking more appealing...

 

[supersport]

Skip-concerning the immunosuppression

I use a therapy called Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation to keep my immune system optimized. it is a treatment discovered in 1928, has an outstanding track record in clearing pathogens. if your white blood cells are suppressed it will raise them after treatment (and also normalize them in episodes of leukemia where they are elevated to an undesireable number). Check out the thread "synovitis"-I wrote about UBI and its effects. if you feel like using the therapy( it is very safe, costs about $150.00) i can pm you or anyone else a list of MD's in your area. An added benefit to athletes/trainees is a stimulation of red cells also, more oxygen to the muscle. 1 treatment has immune enhancing effects for over a month....i use it as a preventative....

 

[crankin'stein]

*Stands up and starts clapping*

Excellent post skip!!

Just wanted to comment on one thinig.... Irregular heartbeat. (AKA Heart Palipitations) This can be caused by hormone inbalances and is more likely to happen to someone who is constantly going on and off short cycles..... And heart palipitations as weird and scary as they feel, are not going to cause you harm.

 

[squatter]

great post skip. my reasons for staying on year round are just about exactly the same. I would add guest apearences to the list. I gotta stay big to entertain between shows, payin bill ya know!

squatter

 

[homonunculus]

Skip,

:thumbsup:

As far as palpitations, these can be emotionally related. Palpitations are by definition a subjective feeling (which likely correspondes with a measureable cardiac event). Ever get all worked up before a presentation in front of a lot of people and feel like your heart's gonna jump out of your chest?... That's a palpatation. (The best are before squat day, IMHO... )

Ever feel so shitty b/c you're losing tons of muscle, getting weaker and fatter at the same time, wondering what happened to all the hard work you've put in at the gym and just then get a sinking feeling in your chest with a rapid flutter of your heart?...

-Randy

 

[supersport]

I

 

[Skip]

What is HCG and the other one you mentioned?

That ought to clear up my position on the subject. hehe

For the record, I am not against using either one. I just don't use them, myself.

Skip
ADD: SS - I will be looking into UBI tomorrow with my doctor. I can use all the help I can get for my immune system as I am probably still suppressed from my shingles episode over the summer. Thanks a ton, bro, for the info.

 

[supersport]

Skip

Concerning UBI I really doubt your MD will have even heard of it. it is not taught at Med Schools. Big Pharma dumps money into med schools to educate docs in pharmacology only. UBI would literally be a dealth knell for their profitability.I could get into the politics of our medicine, but it may be kinda boring. You can do a search on google for UBI-lots of info there. if you want to pm me your location I can send you the name of an MD or 2 that may be nearby. About 50-60 MD's practice UBI in the US and I am getting a new list in the mail this week. Also if your doc is interested in using UBI I can send you some info where he can buy the equipment and get certified. Equipment is cheap-I am probably going to buy one myself for personal use(cost about a grand or so).I can also send you my MD's phone number/email so your MD can contact him if he is curious about the therapy.
SS

 

[GetnBigr]

one of the best posts i've read in a while

props to Skip!!

 

[pumpseeker]

Skip...sorry for being so harsh before. You have some really valid points for staying on. Thanks for the detailed post explaining your reasoning. Actually, this is one of the best posts I've read in a long time. I'm actually starting to question my reasonings for shorter cycles now! Two questions I have if you don't mind...about what dosages do you keep your test and eq/deca at during the offseason? You mentioned low but how low? Also, DO your receptors respond less after being on so long? Thanks bro!

 

[jake steed]

Skip thanks for sharing your knowledge. I am just going off of what I know for a fact. I don't think my cuz was on clen. But he has lost a lot of hair so that may be his prostrate problems. He thinks it could have been an STD also LOL. I am just trying to be a little more careful than he is. Yes, I am a young guy.

JS-out

 

[Skip]

Jake: You mention hairloss vs. prostate problems. I have been looking into this as of late. Obviously, higher levels of DHT conversion can cause hairloss. Higher levels of DHT have also been implicated in prostate problems. However, I am yet to find any info that losing your hair puts one at a greater risk of prostate problems. I have been bald from about 21 (33 now). Though I wasn't completely bald at 21, I was losing it from the top so I decided to shave it all off. I hadn't used much gear to that point, relatively speaking. I attribute my hair loss to genetics as much as abombs here and there before 21. I am not saying there is NOT a link between the two but I haven't found anything too convincing so far. If you have, please point me in the right direction. I would be very interested in taking a look at the info.

Pump, no problem bro. I got on you more to make you aware of the chance to offend other members than myself. It seemed to work. lol

My dosages started 3 or so years ago at 250mg of test a week for a year (with some deca for awhile and then some EQ, etc..) and went up to 500mg a week the next year and up to 750mg last year. I only run one other drug with test during the offseason and it is usually deca or EQ. I think I started the first year at something like 300mg of deca a week (maybe less) and went to 400mg the next year. Last year I was at 500-600mg I believe.

I run different stuff for precontest but it is still relatively low dose. I will concede that I did have to take 2 months off after a show in 02 and 2 months off after my show in 03 as I was ill both times. I get sick coming off shows. Always have and probably always will.

I will not get into my dosages for this year as they are considerably higher. However, this is a calculated move simply to see if jumping the dosages significantly really makes a difference or not. So far after about 3 months, it has made little difference. I am growing very well, indeed, but no better than I have at lower dosages, I don't think. It is still early though.

I don't have any problem at all with gains slowing down throughout my offseason. I take it slow and just aim to consistently make small increases day in and day out, week in and week out. In 02, I either increased a rep every workout or 5 pounds for 36 straight weeks. I am not easily impressed but I was pretty surprised at that type of progress. Remember, that was only at 500mg of test and about 400mg of deca a week, too.

Skip

 

[GetnBigr]

good info Skip


i think everyone needs to realize that a "low dose" is relative to each persons experience and size when it comes to staying ON for extended periods of time. I think a low dose for me, if I were to run test for a year, would be around 200-250mg per week range. No offense to anyone here as this is simply my opinion.

gb

 

[bigbow]

great read. i am actually planning my longest cycle yet and this info is actually along the same lines as my new thought process is; slow and steady as opposed to these short bursts of high dosages that leave me scrambling to avoid a crash and get my test levels back up. it has become too much of a roller coaster for me also. I HATE coming off and feel that a small dose of test yr round may be the way to keep mood, libido, and growth all in check. with all the anti-e's that are available today and good health insurance, i think i can keep most of the sides to a minimum.

stay safe
peace
big bow

 

[pumpseeker]

I've been increasing my dosages a little bit each cycle too. Mainly because I was initially worried about sides. When I didn't get any at 500mgs, I increased it to 750mgs, etc. I can relate to your reasonings there. Skip, your experience with longer cycles and the info you have posted here about this are very helpful, thanks bro. My current cycle was going to be 10 weeks...I'm now planning to make it at least 16 and possibly longer to experiment. If I can come off 16 or 20 weeks and not get shut down too bad, I will probably run all my cycles longer. I don't know if I'm comfortable with staying on year-round, yet...but 5-6 months at a time would be nice.

 

[jake steed]

Skip : I don't have a direct link or a Dr. to pull into this. I was just telling you about a relatives experience. The only link I can link is you both took anadrol. I could link that to a 3rd VICTIM (J/K) also. But I don't think it is what caused it. Any book says that it is a side affect if it already heredity to you the AS just enhances it. I took Aboms for two days and felt like my head was going to blow. I just don't think it is healthy to be on all year round. That is me. If there weren't guys out there staying on all year round who would we have to look up too .


I personally couldn't take being on all year round. That is too much of eating like a prisoner to me. I like my junk food!


Take Care. JS

 

[homonunculus]

Jake: You mention hairloss vs. prostate problems. I have been looking into this as of late. Obviously, higher levels of DHT conversion can cause hairloss. Higher levels of DHT have also been implicated in prostate problems. However, I am yet to find any info that losing your hair puts one at a greater risk of prostate problems. I have been bald from about 21 (33 now). Though I wasn't completely bald at 21, I was losing it from the top so I decided to shave it all off. I hadn't used much gear to that point, relatively speaking. I attribute my hair loss to genetics as much as abombs here and there before 21. I am not saying there is NOT a link between the two but I haven't found anything too convincing so far. If you have, please point me in the right direction. I would be very interested in taking a look at the info.

Skip,

FYI:

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Jun;11(6):549-53. Related Articles, Links
_
Androgenetic alopecia and prostate cancer: findings from an Australian case-control study.
Giles GG, Severi G, Sinclair R, English DR, McCredie MR, Johnson W, Boyle P, Hopper JL.
Cancer Epidemiology Centre, Anti-Cancer Council of Victoria, Melbourne, VIC 3053 Australia.
The purpose of this study was to examine the relationship between androgenetic alopecia (AA) and prostate cancer with particular emphasis on early age at diagnosis and higher grade tumors. We conducted an age-stratified, population-based case-control study in Australia of men who were diagnosed before 70 years of age during 1994-1997 with histopathology-confirmed adenocarcinoma of the prostate, excluding well-differentiated tumors. Controls were selected from the electoral rolls, and the frequency was matched on age. After excluding subjects with missing values, the analysis was based on 1446 cases and 1390 controls of whom direct observations were made of their pattern of AA during face-to-face interviews. Our data suggest an association between prostate cancer and vertex baldness; compared with men who had no balding, the adjusted odds ratio (OR) was 1.54 (1.19-2.00). No associations were found between prostate cancer and frontal baldness or when frontal baldness was present concurrently with vertex baldness. The ORs were 0.98 (0.79-1.23) and 1.14 (0.90-1.45), respectively. The highest ORs were for high-grade disease in men 60-69 years of age: 1.80 (1.02-3.16) for frontal baldness; 2.91 (1.59-5.32) for vertex baldness; and 1.95 (1.10-3.45) for frontal and vertex baldness. This association between the pattern of AA and prostate cancer points to shared androgen pathways that are worthy of additional investigation.

----------
Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2000 May;9(5):523-7. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:
* Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2001 Apr;10(4):415-6.
_
Male pattern baldness and clinical prostate cancer in the epidemiologic follow-up of the first National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.
Hawk E, Breslow RA, Graubard BI.
Gastrointestinal and Other Cancer Research Group, Division of Cancer Prevention, National Cancer Institute, NIH, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-7322, USA. [email protected]
Male pattern baldness (MPB) and prostate cancer are common in American males; however, MPB is clinically observable decades earlier. Aging, androgens, and heritability are risk factors for both conditions. We prospectively studied the association between MPB and clinical prostate cancer in a cohort representative of the United States male population. A total of 4,421 men 25-75 years old without a history of prostate cancer were examined for baldness in the Epidemiologic Follow-up Study of the first National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Participants were followed from baseline (1971-1974) through 1992. Incident cases of prostate cancer were identified by interviews, medical records, and death certificates. Age-standardized incidence rates and proportional hazards models were used to examine the association between MPB and clinical prostate cancer. Prostate cancer was diagnosed in 214 subjects over 17-21 years of follow-up. The age-standardized incidence of prostate cancer was greater among men with baldness at baseline (17.5 versus 12.5 per 10,000 person-years). The adjusted relative risk for prostate cancer among men with baldness was 1.50 (95% confidence interval, 1.12-2.00) and was similar regardless of the severity of baldness at baseline and was independent of other risk factors, including race and age. MPB seems to be a risk factor for clinical prostate cancer.


-Randy

 

[Skip]

Remember though, the abombs was more of an 'experiment' in that I don't use orals during the offseason at all. That was the first time that I had used an oral in the offseason in YEARS.

I respect your opinion, JS. I just don't agree.

To each their own.

Skip

 

[Skip]

Randy, I could have done without that. lol *sigh*

I will put an ad in the Denver Post classified section for a new prostate tomorrow.

Skip