Let me ask you this ???

[Chris250]

Lets say we have this Bodybuilder who has been competing and training for close to 20 years now, and is in there mid 30's or so...and he is pretty close to being maxed out (atleast he thinks) His offseason weight is around 240-250 (more if he wants but its sloppy) and compete's around 225 (plus or minus a few pounds) His training and eating is good, and always been pretty good...His health is good, except for higher BP a few years back (to fat, and heavy) but he thinks that maybe he needs to up the gear some, to break past this 225 competing weight...What do you think he needs to do

Normal offseason cycle

750-1250mg test (long acting) WK
400-600mg EQ or deca OR 150-225mg of tren (cycle 8 weeks on 8 off)WK
No anti E's (hardly ever except precontest)
GH (none in the offseason, precontest only)
T3 (may run a same dose to make metabolism faster, to eat more protein)

thats it, no slin, GH, IGF, orals nothing...Just the basics..he has done cycles like this for over 15 years now...When he is off (what he considers off) he runs test at 200-300mg every 7th to 10th day...and he would do that for 6 week to maybe 12 weeks time (but most times just 4-6 weeks) So he really never goes off, but never really goes to crazy on doses either...Most of the time anymore he stays around the 1g test, cause he doesnt get much out of anything less anymore..but now he feels like he needs to do something else to get the gains going again..More test, add in GH (offseason), IGF, slin ??? His goals are to compete as a superheavy, in the mid 230's or even low 240's...What do you guys think ??? If you need more info, let me know and I will ask him...

 

[nuknuk]

up your test to around 2000mg a wk, no less than 1500mg. EQ is fine and so is deca but at 600mg a wk. Keep tren out for the off season, you dont need it. Add d-bol or AD-50 to it to help. But basically its the test dose is to low.

 

[Chris250]

up your test to around 2000mg a wk, no less than 1500mg. EQ is fine and so is deca but at 600mg a wk. Keep tren out for the off season, you dont need it. Add d-bol or AD-50 to it to help. But basically its the test dose is to low.

So something like this

test 2g wk
EQ or Deca 600mg wk
d-bol at ? 50mg ED

I should also say that he is doing IGF for the first time this past year, 60mcg's ED (workout days only) (trains 4-5 times wk) ...What if he added in HGH at say 4-5 iu's per day and maybe some slin (post workout 10iu's on workout days) how would that effect everything....???

Big Heniz give me some of your pro advice here ??? LOL !!! I know you have in the past talked about your cycles as a pro on PM board...Could you do that over here for us ???

genk

 

[Chris250]

Also if you guys can find the link ??? Wasnt there a big thing a couple of years ago stating that the magic (what magic) starts to happen when you hit 3g a week with test ??? What board was that ??? Milos board, get big ??? I cant remember...But I cant even think that you could grow with that much test, because of the sides that come from that much...but then again some people can handle alot more than some and thats why some people get that pro size and other dont..Doesnt mean that you will turn pro with that much gear (more genetics than anything else) but you probably get closer to a pro size with mega doses...Now I dont want anyone to go out and start shooting 3g a week...So dont be stupid...I was just stated that it has been brought up before...LOL !!!

 

[Chris250]

I also remember when I first read Borreson book (remember him, he's dead now) that talked about blitz cycles...basic cycle was short and doing 250-500mg test ED for 14 days then adding in deca at say 200mg ED for another 14 days then finishing up with orals for 7 days or so...so it would look something like this

days 1-14 250mg test
days 15-30 200mg deca (could have been NPP, short acting stuff, get in and out)
days 31-40 50mg's D-bol (work your way down, to just 10mg's the final few days)
then PCT for 14 days and then do it all over again

He said alot of euro's did it this way in the 90's and some guys were freakin huge...Kinda crazy stuff

chris

 

[saturn1]

This person has:

Refined anabolic- deca or EQ
Base Androgen- Test

He doesnt have:

The most anabolic compound- Insulin

Blitzing from my experience doesnt do much for fellas in there prime. They have generally adapted to refined anabolics/androgens and do cycles to maintain a certian weight.

So from that I believe you have to step up and think outside of what that persons norm is.

I would add Insulin/gh on a longer spurt for new growth.

Then there is the contreversial cortisone load where you flood you system with cortisone forcing your body to create more anabolic receptors to counter the negative surge. Ive only known three people to stick cortisone and do this method succesfully.

Then there is absolute anihilation with mega dosing. I worked with one guy who broke 300lb with 5grams of test per week. Only test. Keep in mind he has been using for 15 years but his break out was when he went on a 5 gram test cyp/week regimen. He won his show that year.

Blitz cycles work because they keep you from adapting however I have never met a competing BB'er who grew and won on a blitz program.

I did fine with dbol only blitzes. 2 weeks on 4 weeks off. 50mg/daily for all 14 days no pct required in most cases. Simple and pretty kind on the body.

 

[h8tr3d]

good thread Genk....

 

[saudades]

up your test to around 2000mg a wk, no less than 1500mg. EQ is fine and so is deca but at 600mg a wk. Keep tren out for the off season, you dont need it. Add d-bol or AD-50 to it to help. But basically its the test dose is to low.

750 - 1250mg is actually quite a lot. I don't know if most people have a need to go all the way to 2g of test. I think that's overkill since the sides would probably become overwhelming. If the test had been listed as 500 - 600, then I may think it would be a little low. Eq and deca are two very different acting anabolics so if this is an offseason cycle, I'd choose deca. I'd possibly add in dbol or anadrol to kickstart. I'd agree to leave tren out since again this is offseason. I wouldn't keep GH only for precontest, I would use it along with slin as Cyphon mentioned to extend new growth.

Borreson also used to advocate high-dose short cycles when the body had been off anabolics long enough and was primed to grow again. Here's a link to the info I posted on him earlier: http://board1.mantisforums.com/upload/showthread.php?t=38435

 

[Chris250]

good thread Genk....

Thanks I just want to get some good BB threads going...

 

[nuknuk]

750 - 1250mg is actually quite a lot. I don't know if most people have a need to go all the way to 2g of test. I think that's overkill since the sides would probably become overwhelming. If the test had been listed as 500 - 600, then I may think it would be a little low. Eq and deca are two very different acting anabolics so if this is an offseason cycle, I'd choose deca. I'd possibly add in dbol or anadrol to kickstart. I'd agree to leave tren out since again this is offseason. I wouldn't keep GH only for precontest, I would use it along with slin as Cyphon mentioned to extend new growth.

Borreson also used to advocate high-dose short cycles when the body had been off anabolics long enough and was primed to grow again. Here's a link to the info I posted on him earlier: http://board1.mantisforums.com/upload/showthread.php?t=38435

trust me the test is to low for the person he is talking about, got to go big on test if you are a experianced user. All he is doing is a see saw effect. To reach super heavy class and be great looking, its all about the test. This is what I would recommend if you had access.

Test long acting 2g wk
EQ 400mg wk, increase in red blood cells and increase appetite
Deca 600mg wk, helps with size and joints
AD 50 50mg day, you want that water bloat to help grow
Dbol 40mg day, help with strength and size
IGF due to cell divison quicker than GH

 

[MMX2]

trust me the test is to low for the person he is talking about, got to go big on test if you are a experianced user. All he is doing is a see saw effect. To reach super heavy class and be great looking, its all about the test. This is what I would recommend if you had access.

Test long acting 2g wk
EQ 400mg wk, increase in red blood cells and increase appetite
Deca 600mg wk, helps with size and joints
AD 50 50mg day, you want that water bloat to help grow
Dbol 40mg day, help with strength and size
IGF due to cell divison quicker than GH

I tend to agree with nuk- I have used the 2g of test method to break through the barriers and I liked what I achieved. As nuk stated, it would be preferable if the user was experienced.

 

[Chris250]

Hey my avatar is gone ..LOL !!! Ok its back !!! I fixed it

 

[jtunderdog]

I have sides at 500mgs of prop a week. 2gs is a scary thought to me. I would think that watching the bp would be of utmost importance. Like nuk said, though Ive never done tren, I know it is beastly with sides and one of those is bp so I would watch that.

 

[Chris250]

trust me the test is to low for the person he is talking about, got to go big on test if you are a experianced user. All he is doing is a see saw effect. To reach super heavy class and be great looking, its all about the test. This is what I would recommend if you had access.

Test long acting 2g wk
EQ 400mg wk, increase in red blood cells and increase appetite
Deca 600mg wk, helps with size and joints
AD 50 50mg day, you want that water bloat to help grow
Dbol 40mg day, help with strength and size
IGF due to cell divison quicker than GH[/QUOTE

Do you really think running two orals (d's and a's) at the same time will make a difference ? What about running one of them at a higher dose...A50 at 100mg's ED or D-bol at 80mg ED...???

 

[DB006]

trust me the test is to low for the person he is talking about, got to go big on test if you are a experianced user. All he is doing is a see saw effect. To reach super heavy class and be great looking, its all about the test. This is what I would recommend if you had access.

Test long acting 2g wk
EQ 400mg wk, increase in red blood cells and increase appetite
Deca 600mg wk, helps with size and joints
AD 50 50mg day, you want that water bloat to help grow
Dbol 40mg day, help with strength and size
IGF due to cell divison quicker than GH

hey bro just curious to what your competitive history is??

 

[Chris250]

hey bro just curious to what your competitive history is??

What do you think DB

 

[Presser]

I wanted to jump in and state i only use 100mgs prop eod as my base and when i want to add hit it hard i just add tren and winny and have upped my test to 2g and it made a difference for a very short period of time, i was trying to break 300lbs and add some muscle which i did but i couldnt deal with 2g it became waist, i sit at 280-285lbs consistantly on only 300mgs prop a week, so take it for what its worth

 

[Chris250]

I wanted to jump in and state i only use 100mgs prop eod as my base and when i want to add hit it hard i just add tren and winny and have upped my test to 2g and it made a difference for a very short period of time, i was trying to break 300lbs and add some muscle which i did but i couldnt deal with 2g it became waist, i sit at 280-285lbs consistantly on only 300mgs prop a week, so take it for what its worth

Presser,

what do you mean the 2g became a waste ? side-effects ? How long were you on 2g test ? Was this just test alone or stacked with something else to...

chris

 

[Presser]

Well I did it to finaly try to break 300lbs pretty sure db006 told me i was doing to much but i had to find out for my self, i did break 300lbs but my strenght increase didnt match the side effects like trying to sleep,and sweat, and i live in a 3 story town home and office is on 3rd floor and i didnt even want to climb the stairs,lol, i was a water balloon! I guess sleeping was my main issue, i was terribly uncomfortabe and a sweaty pig

Now for me a good cycle that consider high doeses is 100mg daily test 50mg daily tren 50mg daily winny, 60mcg igf thats what i call a big cycle now and maybe its just me, maybe i respond to less where as some respond to more who knows, i just think over 2g of test is alot for someone already accomplished in his physique and not trying to go pro or anything , im in this for longevity now so less is more with me

 

[nuknuk]

Ok guys you need to go back and look at this first post of the thread. He wants to compete at a higher weight class. He wants to be a bodybuilder, not a model. If this guy wants to up his weight he needs more test and stay away from the pre-contest drugs in the off season. Just keep the BF% under 15 or less and eat big to.

Presser the model thing was no offense to you, was just saying that you cant worry about looking pretty in the off season.

well I have gave my opinion and Im done. Good luck!