you dont get all that size and bloat without upping the drugs. People wanna see the freaks. Ive trained with Kai Greene and Terry Norris personally in jacksonville when Kai was first making a splash in the NPC....looked we better then with a tight waist and hour glass shape...then more drugs, more insulin, more peps, MORE, MORE, MORE...and now you have the behemoth you see today...With Nuk on this one too.