Hey whats up guys, I havent been on the forums for a year +. I stopped juicing in JAN of this year. I havent touched anything for at least 6 months now. Well heres my problem, for the last week ive been BLOATED like a WATERBALLOON. Not only am I holding water but my muscles look huge, I look like I injected 1g of test, without using any aromatase inhibitors. Ive got a complete moonface right now, and my whole body is big and squishy. a few months ago ( about 4 months after stopping ) I got bloated for a week too.. I dont understand what could possibly be making me this way. I just had a liver panel test a few months ago and everything was OK. I had my hormones checked too and they were in normal range. This is very annoying, i hate looking like a mongoloid. What could be causing this? I had a bottle of femera laying around so i started taking it a few days ago, to see if it will help make the bloat go away, but if its from estrogen then it will take a few weeks to go completely. im interested in your thoughts!
whats wrong with me!!
- Thread starter neoren
- Start date
saturn1
Member
Estro. re-bound, should only last for 2 weeks yet the sucky part is each day it gets worse, and what sucks even worse is you know you are doing everything right, yet the results are opposite, very disturbing emotionally, cause your mind searches for answer and since you already know all there is, it get's confused, again, if it's estro rebound over next 10 days you should lean out again..........edema? whats ur excercise and nutritional routine look like?
Overtraining is also a possibility.
Did you use great amounts of anti-e's during that last cycle?
It is important to understand that anti-estrogens alone do not do much to restore endogenous testosterone release after a cycle. Normally they only foster LH by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens, and we now see that LH rebounds quickly without help anyway. Plus, post cycle there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels will actually be lower here as a result, not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle likewise happens concurrently with a rebound in testosterone levels, not prior to it (note there is an imbalance in the ratio post cycle, but this is another topic altogether). We are seeing no mechanism in which anti-estrogenic drugs can really help here. We can see why this fact would not be difficult to overlook, however. The medical literature is filled with references showing anti-estrogenic drugs like Clomid and Nolvadex to increase LH and testosterone levels, and in normal situations these drugs do indeed increase endogenous androgen production by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens. Combine this with the fact that just as many studies can be found to show that steroid use lowers LH levels when suppressing testosterone, and we can see how easy it would be to jump to the conclusion that post-cycle we need to focus on restoring LH. We would miss the true problem of testicular desensitization unless we were really looking into the actual recovery rates of the hormones involved. When we do, we immediately see little value in using anti-estrogenic drugs.
I'll look into this further
Overtraining is also a possibility.
Did you use great amounts of anti-e's during that last cycle?
It is important to understand that anti-estrogens alone do not do much to restore endogenous testosterone release after a cycle. Normally they only foster LH by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens, and we now see that LH rebounds quickly without help anyway. Plus, post cycle there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels will actually be lower here as a result, not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle likewise happens concurrently with a rebound in testosterone levels, not prior to it (note there is an imbalance in the ratio post cycle, but this is another topic altogether). We are seeing no mechanism in which anti-estrogenic drugs can really help here. We can see why this fact would not be difficult to overlook, however. The medical literature is filled with references showing anti-estrogenic drugs like Clomid and Nolvadex to increase LH and testosterone levels, and in normal situations these drugs do indeed increase endogenous androgen production by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens. Combine this with the fact that just as many studies can be found to show that steroid use lowers LH levels when suppressing testosterone, and we can see how easy it would be to jump to the conclusion that post-cycle we need to focus on restoring LH. We would miss the true problem of testicular desensitization unless we were really looking into the actual recovery rates of the hormones involved. When we do, we immediately see little value in using anti-estrogenic drugs.
I'll look into this further
saturn1
Member
Well, normally this tends to level itself out. The body will detect excessive estro. This is not to say im gonna be 100% as everyone varies. When i had this happen NO anti estro helped me. I had to get on a strict diet and work until, eventually, my hormones leveled off and I was better physically and mentally.
This is just info to consider and not something that applies to everyone.
This is just info to consider and not something that applies to everyone.
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this was posted 7-2. ots now 10-13 and I look and feel exactly the same. In between the beginnning of this post and now the bloat went away for 7 days, on two occasions. But both times it came back with a vengence, I look more bloated right now then I ever did on test. This is so frustrating.
Yes, very emotional, im on the edge. I keep getting hot flashes and mild sweats. My energy levels are very low, im lethargic. Ive got very high anxiety. I feel like im crawling out of my skin, kind of.
The wierd thing about this is, it comes and goes. Fom 8-5 to 8-12 all of these side effects went away and I felt and looked normal. Then it all came back. On 9-1 to 9-11 the same thing happened all the water disappeared, I felt normal emotionally, had energy. then it back back and its still going. Ive tried over the counter diuretics, and dandelion root. Ive tried NO carb ( none, not low carb) and ive gained wieght!!!! Ive been no carb this past week and I look more bloated than ever today. All cutting carbs to is make my muscles flat, which makes me look smaller, but the Sub-q water is still there, im all squishy. Carbs do not effect water that dramatically.
When the water disappeared from 9-1 to 9-11 I kept track of my wieght. I was 182 from 9-1 to 9-9. On 9-9 I started getting hot flashes and I felt emotional, and my muscles looked very pumped and vieny. So i wieghed and i was 187, I knew i couldnt have gained that much wieght that fast because diet was normal. On the 11th, my face was puffy. I wieghed myself, and i was 190. The next day I was bloated as fuck, I wieghed 193. So thats 11 pounds in a little over a week.
I know this isnt edema for a few reasons. Theres periods where it goes away ( Im having periods, lol ). My ankles are not swollen, the doc told me that a person with edema typically gains 50-100 pounds of water, and looks a LOT more puffy than me. Im getting uncontrollable emotional side affects. I look like im on a bunch of test, and I havent even worked out in a month and a half. I look very large.
I dont think I mentioned a big mistake I made that could be, and porbably is a big contributing factor to my condition. In 2002 someone I knew on the gotfina board was advocating long cycles. I knew this was a very bad idea. So I didn't do it. I did a cycle from about april 2003 to june 2003. At the end of the cycle I went to the endocrinologist and had him give me a hormone test. All of my hormones were 0 and my LH (pituitary) was 0. He prescribed me 6 bottles of 200mg/ml test cyp ( Upjohn ) and a shitload of pins. I had insurance. So without recovering from this cycle with hcg/clomid, I started on the bottles of test I was perscribed. I went through all of them between Aug 2003 to jan 2004. Yes I was on for 5 months straight, not counting the cycle right before that one. In Jan I stopped and I had moved to Newport beach, ca and I lost all of my recovery meds. So I ordered more, and this time I got scammed. I didnt end up getting clomid till a month later. After I finished clomid this problem with having periods of bloat started. Im thinking about using proviron, because i think its my only option. should i?
So kiddies look what happens when you fuck up your pituitary gland by staying on for extended periods. You start having periods, if not worse not producing anything at all anymore. At least I know ive got hormones, they are just out of whack.
The wierd thing about this is, it comes and goes. Fom 8-5 to 8-12 all of these side effects went away and I felt and looked normal. Then it all came back. On 9-1 to 9-11 the same thing happened all the water disappeared, I felt normal emotionally, had energy. then it back back and its still going. Ive tried over the counter diuretics, and dandelion root. Ive tried NO carb ( none, not low carb) and ive gained wieght!!!! Ive been no carb this past week and I look more bloated than ever today. All cutting carbs to is make my muscles flat, which makes me look smaller, but the Sub-q water is still there, im all squishy. Carbs do not effect water that dramatically.
When the water disappeared from 9-1 to 9-11 I kept track of my wieght. I was 182 from 9-1 to 9-9. On 9-9 I started getting hot flashes and I felt emotional, and my muscles looked very pumped and vieny. So i wieghed and i was 187, I knew i couldnt have gained that much wieght that fast because diet was normal. On the 11th, my face was puffy. I wieghed myself, and i was 190. The next day I was bloated as fuck, I wieghed 193. So thats 11 pounds in a little over a week.
I know this isnt edema for a few reasons. Theres periods where it goes away ( Im having periods, lol ). My ankles are not swollen, the doc told me that a person with edema typically gains 50-100 pounds of water, and looks a LOT more puffy than me. Im getting uncontrollable emotional side affects. I look like im on a bunch of test, and I havent even worked out in a month and a half. I look very large.
I dont think I mentioned a big mistake I made that could be, and porbably is a big contributing factor to my condition. In 2002 someone I knew on the gotfina board was advocating long cycles. I knew this was a very bad idea. So I didn't do it. I did a cycle from about april 2003 to june 2003. At the end of the cycle I went to the endocrinologist and had him give me a hormone test. All of my hormones were 0 and my LH (pituitary) was 0. He prescribed me 6 bottles of 200mg/ml test cyp ( Upjohn ) and a shitload of pins. I had insurance. So without recovering from this cycle with hcg/clomid, I started on the bottles of test I was perscribed. I went through all of them between Aug 2003 to jan 2004. Yes I was on for 5 months straight, not counting the cycle right before that one. In Jan I stopped and I had moved to Newport beach, ca and I lost all of my recovery meds. So I ordered more, and this time I got scammed. I didnt end up getting clomid till a month later. After I finished clomid this problem with having periods of bloat started. Im thinking about using proviron, because i think its my only option. should i?
So kiddies look what happens when you fuck up your pituitary gland by staying on for extended periods. You start having periods, if not worse not producing anything at all anymore. At least I know ive got hormones, they are just out of whack.
S
saudades
Guest
Sounds to me that you react extremely to estrogen and you have a lot of it. I've been on test for over five years straight for HRT (I'll be on it for the rest of my life), and I've had periods where I've had the hot flashes and mild sweats on the couple of days before I am supposed to take a shot, but I've been naturally lean all my life so I've never gained fat/water as you describe. Every person reacts differently.
How old are you? When your doctor said your hormone levels were normal, what were they? If test is around 300 ng/dl, though that falls (barely) within the 'normal' range, that is too low. I originally tested at 310 (normal is supposed to be 250-300 to 1300). Luckily, my doctor thought that was too low, and when I had my first shot, the next day it was as if someone turned the light on--it was that different for me--I had energy, and I felt so much more alive. Words cannot really describe the difference. Because you did that cycle and test right afterwards, you probably built up a large amount of estrogen but your test hormone level is still low thus your effects.
How old are you? When your doctor said your hormone levels were normal, what were they? If test is around 300 ng/dl, though that falls (barely) within the 'normal' range, that is too low. I originally tested at 310 (normal is supposed to be 250-300 to 1300). Luckily, my doctor thought that was too low, and when I had my first shot, the next day it was as if someone turned the light on--it was that different for me--I had energy, and I felt so much more alive. Words cannot really describe the difference. Because you did that cycle and test right afterwards, you probably built up a large amount of estrogen but your test hormone level is still low thus your effects.
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