CYNPIONATE vs PROPIONATE

Doing a 6 month cycle at about 1 g wkly,what are the differences in results? -does one promote more muscle growth or effect libido more than the other? and sides? I always thought that once you got the test into your system it didn't matter what test you were using cause test is test--only the esters are different.--whats your opinion?

the difference is half lifes, but you mentioned you know that, now also with prop alot more people hold less water, now for the most notable difference and maybe the most important, when your on prop and signs of gyno rear their ugly head you can stop shooting and the gyno symptoms will subside wich is not the case with cyp, even if u run anti-e's and this happens its still best to use prop so u may stop and lower levels in 2-3 days

i would say prop is by far the best test out there other then maybe suspension

i dont think libido or lean muscle mass gains wil be effected much differently with either of the two

so the difference you see is the water and the better prevention for gyno--and as far as growth and libido power are they the same?--also,if I was to do 1 g wkly on test cyn I would do mon wes fri 330 mgs ea one of those days and then continue again the following mon. what would the protocol be for prop?( for 1 g wkly)

I remember reading (don't have any data to back it up) that more of the hormone, when attatched to shorter esthers (such as prop, as compared to the longer cyp or enan esthers) , get into your blood stream. So at the same weekly dose, your test levels would be higher on prop than cyp, even once your blood levels stabilize.

The shorter esther prop would get into your blood stream more quickly, coming up to full and stabil levels. Same thing when you stop, it gets out of your system quick and you can start your post cycle therapy quickly, where cyp tends to be self tapering (sticks around, but in smaller amounts, for awhile following your last shot).

With cyp, I'd do 500mg twice a week. With prop, I'd probably do 150mg ed, for a total of 1050mg (or 140mg ed, for 980mg total per week) - or double that eod.

AL I WOULD LOVE TO READ THAT AND HAVE IT IN OUR "EDGE" FORUM IF U COULD REMEMBER WHERE U READ IT

AND TUGS I THINK THE BEST PROTOCALL FOR PROP WOULD BE ED THEN EOD BUT NEVER EVERY THIRD DAY, I THINK IF YOU SPACE IT OUT TO EVERY THIRD DAY YOU MIGHT HAVE HILLS AND VALLYS IN UR HORMONE LEVELS, BUT THAT PROTOCALL U POSTED FOR CYP IS FINE, EVEN ONE SHOT A WEEK IS OK WITH CYP BRO

I'm gonna take a stab at Al's comment and say that he may be referring to the variations in the weight of the ester. Because the propionate ester is so much smaller than cyp, enan, decanoate, etc., the testosterone compound accounts for a greater percentage of the overall 100mg (for example) weight.

Here's another way to look at it...Take 100mg of test suspension. Testosterone alone comprises 100% of that 100mg, so you are truly receiving 100mg of testosterone. Because an ester has a specific mass, some of the stated dosage weight is actually comprised of the ester. So 100mg of suspension may actually be the equivalent of 105mg of test prop, 110mg of test enanthate, 130mg of test decanoate, etc. Those are total guesses and I'm too lazy to find out the individual masses of each ester. Someone else can do that, LOL. But that's how it is...

so, after the body is saturated fully,be sides the water bloating, (is there really a significant amount less of water bloating using prop vs cyn?) then the muscle growth,energy,libido all these results will be the same.? and also,lets say ,well the truth is I have always used cyn for the past 2 yrs--now because I,m switching to prop, will my body respond better?

Tugs, test is test once the ester is removed. I personally believe that you'll experience less bloating with propio than with other esters for two main reasons: (1) you'll generally inject a smaller dose and (2) you're injecting more frequently.

Let's take Joe Average who can either take (2) 250mg test enanthate injects per week or (~3.5) 100mg test propionate injects per weeks (100mg eod). In my experience, those are pretty comparable dosages. I bet more of that 250mg hits you more quickly than most people think. Every graph I've ever seen about blood levels shows a very steep rise and then a gradual tapering off. Your body is gonna try to maintain a fairly stable T/E ratio, so I'm guessing the aromatizing action will be greater with the 250mg enanthate than the 100mg propio because of the greater dose (yielding a greater rise on the y axis).

**EDIT**
I don't want someone getting the wrong idea here, so I'm gonna clarify that last sentence. Obviously, the esters have nothing to do the with propensity of aromatization. I'm simply using their names to distinguish between the two testosterone products. With that in mind, the reason I believe you'll experience greater aromatizing activity with testosterone enanthate than testosterone propionate is simply because there will be more testosterone to aromatize following the injection (within 24-48 hours).
********

And then if you only inject test enanthate once every 4-5 days, your blood levels will fluctuate even more (than everyday or eod test propio injections) wreaking even more havoc.

This my best guess with respect to this subject. The only real way to find out would be to conduct periodic hormone panels continuously throughout a cycle. That would probably be quite revealing, but who's got the dough for that (other than some research facility).

BTW, I still prefer longer-acting products for long cycles...just more convenient.

How many cc's in a mg?

Tugs, if you are doing 1 g/week for six months I would suggest that you go with the Cypionate, only because you will have to inject less. Actually, if I were you, go with Test Enanthate (the European version of Cyp) with two shots/week (2ccs in each shot- 500 mg). I think shooting EOD for six months may get a little old.

"Testosterone Ester Report"

One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.

WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS
I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?

An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS
There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.

IN CONCLUSION
While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

I thought this was interesting as well

I think most people when comparing price's of test (or any aas for that matter) just devide the # of mg by the dollar to get the mg per dollar price, and do not take into consideration the weight of the ester which I believe is also important. The weight of the ester will determine how much actual testosterone itself is in each ml
First lets break down each ester by the following:

Ester, # of carbon's attached, percentage of weight

Acetate, 2, 13%
Propionate, 3, 17%
Enanthate, 7, 28%
Cypionate, 8, 30%
Phenylpropionate, 9, 33%
decanoate, 10, 36%

Using QV products and prices from a popular guy lets do some comparison's on 10ml bottles.
QV cyp 200 mg/ml is $42.00
QV enan 250 mg/ml is $42.00
QV prop 100 mg/ml is $37.00

So since cyp is 30% ester you get 70mg of test for every 100mg of product. A 10ml bottle of cyp will yield 1400mg of test per bottle.
1400mg for $42.00 is about 32mg per dollar.

Prop is 17% ester so again you would get 83mg of test per every 100mg of product. The 10ml bottle of QV prop will get you 830mg of actual test. So at $37.00 a bottle you would then be getting about 22mg per dollar.

Thats a pretty big difference if you look at the numbers ! Now this guys prices for each ester are pretty close to the same for each one but some peoples prop looks cheaper but if you run the numbers its sometimes actually not.....

nice post bro

Thanks for doing the leg-work radical_P, LOL! I swear my original breakdown for comparison was 110/130/150 (propio/enanthate/decanoate), which would have put me a lot closer to the article's calculations. But I changed it after thinking about molecular weights, etc. Should have gone with my initial thoughts...just like multiple choice answers, eh? LOL!!

Yep - that's exactly what I was talking about earlier... thanks, radical_p and goldenear!

Nice info Rad and Golden

SNDMN said:

Tugs, if you are doing 1 g/week for six months I would suggest that you go with the Cypionate, only because you will have to inject less. Actually, if I were you, go with Test Enanthate (the European version of Cyp) with two shots/week (2ccs in each shot- 500 mg). I think shooting EOD for six months may get a little old.

Click to expand...

Cyp/Enath is also way cheaper than prop. Since we are talking 6 months here it's going to add up to a pretty penny!

I was told by my endocrinologist, which was confirmed by my pharmacist, that the ester weight is factored in when determining the mg/ml. So, according to them, 200mg/ml of test cyp. is a full 200mg of test regardless of ester.

that may be true for human grade gear, but I doubt if it is for vet grade, and I'm almost positive it isn't for underground gear.