Professional Bodybuilding sucks ......

Just thought I would see what you all think here.

Personally, I hate the direction that pro bodybuilding is going and think it is doing the sport much more harm than good. I am not at all talking about synthol, gear, diuretics, blah, blah.... I simply mean the LOOK, however they come about it. I feel it is turning away far too many people that open a mag or something and simply KNOW that they could never look like that.

It seems that it has become a freak show and the guys who look good with aesthetics and symmetry no longer have a chance at all. Yeah, yeah, Dexter was up there but that was about it.

I started this post because we had a debate going on another board about Matt DuVal winning the Nationals. He might be a really nice guy and all, I don't know, but I think he looks very unimpressive, in my opinion (and I am sure that he thinks the same of me lol). In fact, I think there are no REAL good superheavies out there at all. Chris Cook - don't think so, Scott Milne from Canada - yeah right, Art Atwood - oh brother. Hell, even guys like Gunter just don't look right anymore.

Is it me? Am I just phuked up in the head? Okay, scratch that last question. Still, I think guys like Victor Martinez, Idris Ward-El, Johnnie Jackson, Richard James (I think that is his name - he just won the USAs or something as lightheavy), have some of the best physiques out there. I even think Jay Cutler looks all phuked up, to be honest. Have you seen pictures of Kevin Levrone back in 92 or 94?? He looked GREAT compared to what he does now.

Just my opinion but I am wondering how you guys feel about the current crop of pros.

Skip

I'm a BB'ing fan, pure and simple and can appreciate the mass monsters (almost no matter how bad the symmetry is) as well as beautifully crafted lines.

Frankly, I doubt that the general public distinguishes between Richard Jones' physique and that of Markus Ruehl. The question is whether the extraordinary physiques of today are just enough push away (young) people who are on the edge of being a bb'ing enthusiast.

To a certain degree this is what happened w/ women's BB'ing and led to the development of fitness and now figure - an in between to increase participation in our sport(s). Men, d/t what is generally socially (and biologically) expected of men from a physical standpoint, don't have the option of a watered down bodybuilding / fitness competition. (Yes, I know that there are men's fitness competition and if you want a hell of a good laugh, find one an ESPN2 late at night. Holy SH#&!!!)

Can you imagine being a depleted, dehydrated BB'er backstage pumping up to go on stage right next to some guys standing around looking talking about their next underwear modeling shoot, whether or not this shade of blue matches their eyes and if their leotard "makes me look fat?..." LOL

-Randy

I don't like what I see with some of todays BBers. I like seeing massive guys up there but symmetry has been thrown out the window. Mass and symmetry should be equal when judging not just the biggest or freakiest guy winning. I was a big fan when Lee Haney was Mr. O. I would like to see some changes happen. I think the sport is turning off a lot of potential fans in it's current state.

This is the same conversation that has been going on for 20 yrs!! The sport is pushed by supplement companys, mags, ect that pay the winners prizes. They want people to say "Look how well our companies products work!" So BBs who are built on AS and whatever they can find to blow themselves into freak shows walk around with T-Shirts on that hawk their sponsers products. You cannot make an intelligent stand for the extreme use of AS or any other product that turns people into freaks. So to turn back to your orginal question about the direction of BB it HAS NO DIRECTION!!! Just a bunch of dumbass people abusing their bodies to feed the profits of the supplement companies!!!!!! Sure they make some bucks along the way , but later in life the hospital bills and ill health they have sucks up all the money and leaves them broke and sick!! I know alot of you guys think your the next best thing since sliced bread, but the reality of the situation is your just fooling yourselves. You will never be a pro BB but you may phuck up your body with drugs so bad that you will piss blood!!! JMHO!! Have a great day!!!

Knothead has it. It's ALL MONEY! The point most people miss is WE as the consumer Should decide how we want the industry to go. Everyone falls for the advertising my self included. A company wraps up a product or person in nice fancy wrapping and pushes it as the THING you have ALWAYS wanted!

You won't like this either

Most of you won't like this - but if you look at natural body building compared to A/S enhanced BBing most of these "we are going in the wrong direction" issues go away. There are no issues with synthol, bloating/distension, or any of the other weird and unnatural things that you can see in many professional BBers. There are no natty BBers going to prison for A/S involvement, none being rushed to the hospital because of lasix misuse, none being accused of roid rage incidents.

To me, the ONLY thing missing with the naturals is the extra size and mass that drug use can provide. The best natural BBers are still very big, but they almost always maintain decent symetry, proportion and definition.

When I think about it - many of todays pros looked thier best after what I would guess is a couple of years of moderate A/S use. Enough to give them some decent added size compared to a natty, but not enough to bring about all of the undesirable affects of todays top level pros. Even Coleman looked better a few years ago, he was not as big and massize, but astetically he looked much better IMHO.

Again, I know that I risked pissing some of you off - but for most people I think that the whole A/S drug route is just a lot easier than trying to really bust your butt to be an awsome natty BBer.

The proof of the professional BBing industry losing it's appeal for the majority of people is in what you don't see on TV anymore. Heck, even American Muscle went belly up due to a lack of interest and sponsership and that was more mainstream than extream. I can't remember the last BBing show on ESPN or ESPN2 or any other channel for that matter. Why? Mr. and Mrs. hometown USA have come to think of professional BBing as a freak show, unattainable, undesirable and involved in illegal and unhealthy activities.

OK - so now that many of you are ticked - let me say that personally I do not have an issue (other than the legalities of it)with someone who wants to use A/S as long as they do it based on sound advice and a well thought out plan. But you have to draw the line somewhere short of becoming something that looks deformed and unnatural.

So I think that Skip makes a good point. If the pro level judges are not going to recognize symetry, proportion and conditioning as the keys to being the best physique, but instead are going to reward mass over these other factors they are hurting and not helping the sport, and they are hurting all of us who think of BBing as a good thing, because we get thrown into the same stereotype that most people think of when they look at professional BBers.

wow, man i feel the same way skip

You must not get out much.You say that the sport is push people away.I've been at most national show and several pro show in the past few years.They are packed,some are standing room only.
Yes I think some(matt Daval) abuse PNP and it looks like shit but there are some big guys with good shape out there.

I have to agree, maybe becuase i know i will never be a mass monster. Ronnie coleman i admire how hard he works and his genitics,yates same thing, but last real Mr. O i would say i would like to look like would be Lee Haney, who was/is also very good for sport in terms of spoke person etc.. I like the Lee Lab, Bob Pairs, and now New guys like Mantenz etc.. they have lines, tiny waist. To me, bloated guts are not the right direction and do not appear to everyone.

well i agree and disagree

certainly there are some mass guys whose aesthetics are hurting but i would not give it to a guy like Darrem Charles either--Martinez, and some other guys like you mentioned have beautiful physiques but they will not win unless they add another 15-20lbs--now if they can keep their aesthetic--watch out!!

i guess i am biased though

i will never get on stage with a waist any less than 33" at my best weight--i just do not have narrow enough hips/waist when i am even in shape
\
BUT i can come in still with excellent lines, good symmetry and be over 240 contest weight at 5'7"
the thing is at certain point guys like wheeler looked worse bigger it seemed whereas i (and guys like Cutler) look better and better the bigger i get and need to be amongst the absolute biggest to be at my best (very broad and deep torso)
Jay may not be the prettiest BB ever but he looks his best with all the mass he now has
nothing he can do about not having picture perfect lines

i actually find Dexter's waist odd as it does not taper at the end but sort of flairs out a bit even (although i am sure it is still small)

sorry skip--we ain;t ever going back and guys will be even bigger--hopefully though abdomens do not get bigger as well

see ya at close to 250 in contest shape at next year's nationlas,,he,he

eye_candy said:

.... and now New guys like Mantenz etc..

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Who in THEE phuk is 'Mantenz'?? LOL Just messing with you, bro.

In response to the guy who said that I must not get out much - LOL..... Oooookay...... Hmmmm...... I think I am adequately qualified to give my opinion due to the fact that I have followed and been involved in bodybuilding now for about 20 years. I am well aware that national level shows are packed and SRO, usually. However, go to state shows and if you could remove everyone that was there to see a fitness or figure competitor compete, you would be hearing crickets instead of applause.

Bodybuilding has a following, I won't deny that. My debate is more about what the look is and where it is heading. I won't even bother to discuss or debate WHY this is, I am simply saying that I don't like it and that I think it isn't good for the sport in the end.

VA, you make some very good points. However, there are some guys in the game that have exhausted 95% of their natural potential and simply got bored with the same poundages, same look, same condition, etc., after continuing to bust their nuts for years on end. I do understand that this is the exception and not the rule, though. You and I have spoken about this before and I still worry about all the shit that is involved. It is a question that nags me far more often than you might think.

Skip

You guys watch - Victor Martinez, Troy Alves, Richard Jones, etc., will all look like shit in 4 years compared to what they look like now. I hope not but that is certainly the trend.

Just my opinion but I am never wrong..... LOL

Skip

if it takes thm 4 years that'lll be 2-3 too long,LOL

i can get these guys 10-20 lbs bigger wo/damaging their 'look' to any great extent

yes they will not be as pretty and some sacrifice will need to be made to get those added 20lbs LBM, but not at a total expense of their physique aesthetics

Why does knotheads post have the same sour attitude that fathead once graced us all with at promuscle? dude, if its not u, great, but ur on steroid info talk board. we have already made our decesion to use. u are not going to say anything we have not already heard. it hasnt deterred us so far, what makes u think that it will make any difference coming from you?

While I recognise that pro women's bodybuilding is in even more trouble than men's, to me the women pro's are much, much closer to what bodybuilding is all about than the men. I realise the women use drugs and are by no means natural, but I think the end result is simply an amazing physique, with hard, tight abs, amazing, defined legs and very appealing upper body development including back and arms. In some sense they look like what a "fitness" men's comp would look like. They are not bloated, don't typically have roid gut, probably because they use lower doses than the men. They are very symmetrical, except their legs are more developed than their upper body, due to genetics overcoming drugs. You can see the extremely hard work that goes into these bodies, which is what it all is about. And, some of them are fantastically strong, again especially in the legs, but I've seen some amazing bench press numbers as well, especially considering the genetic disadvantages they are up against, drugs or no drugs. I do not find the bloated, overly huge men BB attractive in the least, and to me, bodybuilding is about being attractive.

This is just my opinion, of course, and I know I'm in the minority.

I know what you mean, the pros really are getting freaky.when i buy workout videos i try to get natural guys or ones that atleasr look human! i find i cant relate to guys like jay or ronnie doing the excercies, our bodies are so much different. on the other hand, what can we do about it? they've pushed boundary and are probably nearing the human body limit for size.

insulted old man

KnotHead said:

This is the same conversation that has been going on for 20 yrs!! The sport is pushed by supplement companys, mags, ect that pay the winners prizes. They want people to say "Look how well our companies products work!" So BBs who are built on AS and whatever they can find to blow themselves into freak shows walk around with T-Shirts on that hawk their sponsers products. You cannot make an intelligent stand for the extreme use of AS or any other product that turns people into freaks. So to turn back to your orginal question about the direction of BB it HAS NO DIRECTION!!! Just a bunch of dumbass people abusing their bodies to feed the profits of the supplement companies!!!!!! Sure they make some bucks along the way , but later in life the hospital bills and ill health they have sucks up all the money and leaves them broke and sick!! I know alot of you guys think your the next best thing since sliced bread, but the reality of the situation is your just fooling yourselves. You will never be a pro BB but you may phuck up your body with drugs so bad that you will piss blood!!! JMHO!! Have a great day!!!

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Wow-this could be a candidate for "most ignorant post of the year"-A lot of "us guys" realize being a pro is not an option and your blanket attack on BBers is insulting and infantile-post your opinion and keep the emotional outbursts resulting from your own obvious inadequacies to yourself-better yet find a fitness board or a "natural" board-post your pics and opinions there-with any luck they'll ask you to be a MOD

Thanks for the flames!! Ouch!! Well now that I have been voted the most ignorant post of the year I would like to thank all the little people who made this possible. Its sad you fit into the " dumbass people who abuse their body for the profits of supplement companies" slot, but hey you could just be a dumbass with no direction!! If you would take the time to read the orginal post by SKIP he was talking about the Top Pros of BB and the drugs they must take to Blow themselves up and how it will burn them out young!! Thats what I was refering to when I posted!!! Not the low level AS user who does it for effect!! My point is that to become a TOP PRO BB of today you must dump so much crap into your body that it is not worth it!! Again, Thanks for your vote it makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

i think dex doing such a nice job opens the door for martinez, ward, jackson etc. the mass monster thing is no more. you watch. the standard has been set. the guy that looks the best overall will win. whensymetry was the name of the game the bigger bros thought they looked better and now it is the oposite. how much drugs a pro uses means nothing if everything else is not right. seems to me some bros don't want anyone to have an opinion. it is about opinions right? i thought dex looked the best but thats just me. the 280-300lb winners have just ended. IMO.

Hey "knot"-have you ever competed?-I was just wondering what exactly was the basis for your "enlightened" opinions??-also could you be more specific as to who the "guys who think they are the best thing since sliced bread but are just fooling themselves" really are?-are they here on this board?-maybe backstage at the Mr O??-Lastly please re-read the original post-it referred to the age old argument of mass vs. asthetics-not a word about drug dosages,no name calling,no references to any economic factors-simply Skips opinion concerning judging trends in BBing