Progesterone and Estrogen question

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Does anyone have an answer about proesterone causing gyno by itself or if estrogen HAS to be present to cause it period? I hear people saying that even if something causes progesterone to arise that estrogen must be present as well to cause the gyno/hard tisue build up, so taking anti estrogens is still a good idea while taking soething that causes progesteron?

anyone know for sure
 
It dosent take both either one can do it.

I saw a study on this a while back , i'll se if i can rememmber where it was at.
 
I looked it up before and breast growth requires estrogen, progesterone, and IGF-1. It needs all three to grow.

"Although estrogens and progestogens are vital to mammary growth, they are ineffective in the absence of anterior pituitary hormones (13). Thus, neither estrogen alone nor estrogen plus progesterone can sustain breast development without other mediators, such as GH and IGF-1, as confirmed by studies involving the administration of estrogen and GH to hypophysectomized and oophorectomized female rats, which resulted in breast ductal development. "

http://www.endocrine-source.com/male/male14/maleframe14.htm
 
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ok so ur saying if one were to take anti e's and was on a cycle that produced progesteron that one could not grow breast tissue because of the absence of estrogen from the anti e's provided the anti e did its job, man i kep hearing all kinds of mixed revies now:mad:
 
??

Cordoba said:
I looked it up before and breast growth requires estrogen, progesterone, and IGF-1. It needs all three to grow.

"Although estrogens and progestogens are vital to mammary growth, they are ineffective in the absence of anterior pituitary hormones (13). Thus, neither estrogen alone nor estrogen plus progesterone can sustain breast development without other mediators, such as GH and IGF-1, as confirmed by studies involving the administration of estrogen and GH to hypophysectomized and oophorectomized female rats, which resulted in breast ductal development. "

http://www.endocrine-source.com/male/male14/maleframe14.htm
Click to expand...

so how come you can get gyno on test alone?

test does not make progesterone I dont think. only estrogen.

deca makes progesterone.
 
I have never gotten gyno, I got all the other bad estrogen sides, it really was not cool.
 
lucky you

Supra said:
I have never gotten gyno, I got all the other bad estrogen sides, it really was not cool.
Click to expand...

I on the other hand get it on as little as 200 per week.
 
The weak progestins (progesterone-like compounds) formed by deca and tren are not strong enough stimulators of the prolactin receptors to cause gyno alone. Elevated estrogen levels are a prerequisite. So, treating for the elevated estrogen is an indirect way to prevent prog/prolactin-related gyno. B6 at 200mg/day is very effective also, but that is directed towards lowering stimulation of the prolactin receptors themselves.
 
hmmmm, interesting stuff. I am very gyno prone. I am thinking about trying a course of just tren with an anti e and some B6. which anti e would be best to use do you think?

would it be a good idea to use somethng to stop the tren from converting into prog as well?
 
wide as a house said:
hmmmm, interesting stuff. I am very gyno prone. I am thinking about trying a course of just tren with an anti e and some B6. which anti e would be best to use do you think?

would it be a good idea to use somethng to stop the tren from converting into prog as well?
Click to expand...

I don't buy the theory that you can prevent tren converting to a progestin. I also wouldn't run tren alone due to serious libido and recovery issues. Given your situation, I'd maybe try tren with proviron (both an anti-aromatase and androgen for libido) also with nolva at 10mg/day to block estrogen at the mammary (where it's important here). I'd run B6 at 200-300mg/day. If you get gyno from that.....I give up, but this should work well.
 
Thanks for the advise einstien, I will give it a go and chuck in a little bit of anastrozole as well just to be ultra safe.

Nolva is a weird one, never done much for me, if anything it seems to aggravate my symptoms. I remember reading that this is possible in sensitive individuals. Nolva can actually cause or worsen gyno. Have you ever heard of this theory?
 
italianbike996 said:
bromocriptine is what you use with tren.
Click to expand...

No reason to use something harsh like bromo if you're using B6 already.
I haven't heard of nolva causing gyno...it is a SERM though, and therefore has either estrogenic agonist or antagonist properties, depending on tissue type.....so, it does sound feasible. Nolva, even if sytemic estrogen levels are elevated, will keep the estrogen environment in the mammary low or nonexistent, therefore reducing potential for prog/prolactin-related gyno as well.
 
wide as a house said:
When you say B6 I assume you mean vitamin B6 - would an oral version do the job or do i need to seek out an injectable?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Oral is fine...it's pretty bioavailable. B-12, on the other hand, is only about 10% bioavailable orally.
I can post several studies showing B6's effects on prolactin....for the naysayers, if you like.
Personal experience as well as several others experiences are more convincing than the studies though.
 
If you could block all the estrogen production in the male body gyno would be impossible to form. But anti-e's are not 100% effective. Aromasin has a maximum supression of 85%-95% achived at a 25mg dose. Those studies were done on postmenopausalwomen that are much smaller then we are and they are not shooting 2000mg of test per week.
 
Cordoba said:
If you could block all the estrogen production in the male body gyno would be impossible to form. But anti-e's are not 100% effective. Aromasin has a maximum supression of 85%-95% achived at a 25mg dose. Those studies were done on postmenopausalwomen that are much smaller then we are and they are not shooting 2000mg of test per week.
Click to expand...

Exactly, people misunderstand anti e's...the %suppression reported is usually just in women and with exponentially less aromatizable substrate (test). Even at 1mg/day of anastrazole, your estrogen levels will be higher than normal while on a cycle.
Aromasin may show the the highest estrogen suppression in us, by far...not just the 10% differences you see in postmenopausal women studies. Aromasin inactivates aromatase rather than competitively inhibiting it. Even at 2.5mg/day very good results are seen.
 
Cordoba said:
If you could block all the estrogen production in the male body gyno would be impossible to form. But anti-e's are not 100% effective. Aromasin has a maximum supression of 85%-95% achived at a 25mg dose. Those studies were done on postmenopausalwomen that are much smaller then we are and they are not shooting 2000mg of test per week.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean a 0.25mg dose, not a 25mg dose - Thats about $200 gone in one go.
 
wide as a house said:
I assume you mean a 0.25mg dose, not a 25mg dose - Thats about $200 gone in one go.
Click to expand...

25mg of aromasin is a standard dose. If you pay $200 for 25mg of aromasin, you're getting screwed. You should pay around $3/25mg. That dose is high though.....12.5/day would likely be sufficient.
 
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