aas dosage pyramiding

what is everyones thoughts on the concept of pyramiding doses etc..and not pyramiding them up like in this fashion 200,400,600 but rather on the tail end of the cycle to decrease the "shock" for lack of a better term of going from say 500-800mgs to none comin in..do you guys think that maybe a slow taper off of your peak dose would help with the shock and ease into a pct? maybe switchin from eth to prop and lowerin the weekly dose? i thought this would make for another intersting converstaion and maybe people can find some studies that will prove there points...

i've always kinda leaned towards this but early on in the cycle....when you think about it, when you first start a cycle your levels are at a plateau.....if you jump start with say something like prop or a short ester then your levels are gonna spike real quick and go way above your normal levels thus for the first week or so you will have levels basd on an accumulation of your natural test and the added test...after the first week or two your natty test production wil cease and then your new test levels will be lowered once thoise natty levels are gone. Thus, you will not have the same levels in the third and fourth weeks of your cycle as you did in the first so i would recomend the increase at that point...the same is in retrospect to coming off of your cycle but when you consider that lots of bro's are using substances like hcg to stimulate production of natty test levels again it would be wise to do a on/off of something like hcg in order to slowly begin that stimulation as well as start to decrease you injcted levels of test at the same time....JMHO

I have thought bout this recently but i have never tried either method to see how my body reacts to increasing after say the 3rd week or decrease at the end but at the same time lengthen it so as not to have an abrupt cut off

irishpride said:

what is everyones thoughts on the concept of pyramiding doses etc..and not pyramiding them up like in this fashion 200,400,600 but rather on the tail end of the cycle to decrease the "shock" for lack of a better term of going from say 500-800mgs to none comin in..do you guys think that maybe a slow taper off of your peak dose would help with the shock and ease into a pct? maybe switchin from eth to prop and lowerin the weekly dose? i thought this would make for another intersting converstaion and maybe people can find some studies that will prove there points...

Click to expand...

if you're wanting to know if tapering off when beginning to end a cycle is effective, it isn't. tapering doesn't do a damn thing for you. as a matter of fact, tapering simply wastes your time and money...here's why:

For arguments sake only, lets say you naturally have 100mg of test floating around in your blood at any given time. as soon as you introduce an outside source (ie. synthetic test), your nuts cease to produce natural testosterone (that's why they shrink). so if your body is recieving an outside source of testosterone, regardless of the amount, your body thinks that it doesn't have to make any. by tapering off from 800mg to 700 to 600 to 500 to 400 to 300 to 200 to 100 and to 1.0mg, your body still thinks that test production should be cut off due to the outside source (because it still reads the extra test in the blood). when you taper, you're wasting your money because the extra 200 mg (or lower dose) of test is not enough to get good results, nor is it allowing your body to ease itself back into testosterone production. the best way is to jump on the juice at full tilt and cut if off when your vial is empty. shortly after, begin post cycle therapy. i tend to blabber and go off topic sometimes...i hope this is the answer you were looking for

Makes sense......Good post bro.
Anyone else?

I don't taper. I don't think its that necessary to taper in the beginning, I see you point MD but when you jamming 1g + per wk does that little amount of natural test really matter, seems insignificant almost when you compare it to what is replacing it. However, what MD said about ending a cycle does make sense. If I were to ever taper I would taper at the end only and then use some HCG combo with decreasing synthetic test. I would only consider this necessary for a prolong cycle and one that had high doses. Reason being is that I don't think most people get shut down as bad as they think they do. I have only experienced this once, and it was a prolonged cycle with 1g of test plus lots of tren and winny. On the normal 10-12 wker of average doses, 500-800 test I have never felt completely shut down and NEVER experienced an testiclular shrinkage that so many talk about. So I think that this HCG combo with tapering would only really be beneficial in cetrain situations where the cycle was of high doses and fairly long.

brew said:

I don't taper. I don't think its that necessary to taper in the beginning, I see you point MD but when you jamming 1g + per wk does that little amount of natural test really matter, seems insignificant almost when you compare it to what is replacing it. However, what MD said about ending a cycle does make sense. If I were to ever taper I would taper at the end only and then use some HCG combo with decreasing synthetic test. I would only consider this necessary for a prolong cycle and one that had high doses. Reason being is that I don't think most people get shut down as bad as they think they do. I have only experienced this once, and it was a prolonged cycle with 1g of test plus lots of tren and winny. On the normal 10-12 wker of average doses, 500-800 test I have never felt completely shut down and NEVER experienced an testiclular shrinkage that so many talk about. So I think that this HCG combo with tapering would only really be beneficial in cetrain situations where the cycle was of high doses and fairly long.

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cool stuff...except this.. "...Reason being is that I don't think most people get shut down as bad as they think they do...". I'vce only got one line for you, and anyone else who believes this:

Your nuts are either ON, or OFF.

there's no such thing as "somewhat shut down" or "my nuts are only producing a small amount of test while on the juice"

you simply make natty test when you're not on juice, and you dont when you are on the juice.

dont want to sound like a dick, but it's really cut and dry. no if's, and's, or but's about it.

I personally don't see a reason or benefit to taper on or off.

I think the only way we'll ever know for sure is if somebody wants to run a few different cycles and get bloodwork done every week.

I dont think diablo could be right about your nuts being "on or off". In his first reply he states that your body will cease to produce natural test "as soon as" exogenous test is introduced be it "1mg or 800mg". Test production simply does not react that fast. Its not like insulin.

Your body reacts differently to different amounts of androgens, hence the reason sides are dose dependant, even gyno which is very dose dependant. Your body takes time to adjust hormones, a lot of time.

All of his statments cant possibly be correct or it would follow that he is absolutely incorrect about test production stopping "as soon as" you substitute it due to the claim of nut shrinkage being directly related to no more natural test. It cant be both ways. If the one is true, then it is impossible to explain the lack of shrinkage in many guys. Shrinkage happens less than no shrinkage and if we poll the guys on here we will see that.

In his second reply he makes it clear that acording to him your nuts are either on or off, but fails to address BREW's lack of shrinkage in the presence of exogenous test when his first claim was that test production automatically stops with that exogenouse introduction.
I dont want to sound like a dick, but it's really cut and dry. no if's, and's, or but's about it. It cant be both ways which means nobody here knows the answer for sure.

I'm not here to pimp for pyramiding, and I see no reason to ramp up, possibly down, but without seeing weekly bloodwork on different cycles we will never know. As far as going down, yeah 200 will not build muscle, but it is not going to put you in the supraphysiological levels either and your nuts may just know it and begin to fire up again.

Besides all this, What about the entire concept ot SHIC's. They are based on the idea that your body does not react that fast to hormonal changes. And they absolutely work as far as keeping the sides off so we know this is true. So maybe coming down slow gives your HPTA less of a shock too, and gives it the time it needs to make PCT easier and smoother, almost like giving it a little heads up.

diablo31 said:

cool stuff...except this.. "...Reason being is that I don't think most people get shut down as bad as they think they do...". I'vce only got one line for you, and anyone else who believes this:

Your nuts are either ON, or OFF.

there's no such thing as "somewhat shut down" or "my nuts are only producing a small amount of test while on the juice"

you simply make natty test when you're not on juice, and you dont when you are on the juice.

dont want to sound like a dick, but it's really cut and dry. no if's, and's, or but's about it.

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Where is your evidence of this? I don't think that is the case, it can be suppressed without being imidieately ceased. Its not a light switch, it happens over time. I've done enough cycles to know my body, and I'm telling you how I react sorry if it doesn't fit what you were told, everyone reacts differently, nothing in this game is 'cut and dry'.

I must have very "test sensitive" nuts then! I run Methyl 1-Test at 20mgED for 4 weeks and my balls are the size of marbels, comapred to ummmm pecans(large pecans ) before the test. Also my semen volume decreases very noticibly, from lets say 2 TBSP to volume that looks no more than a rain drop. Sorry for the visual, though I thought that tapering at the end would/should get your balls to wake up a little bit. But what do I know, I have balls the size of tic-tacs, anyone need a breath mint?

Your nuts are not "very test sensitive"

M1t is not related to any injectable testosterone ester.

AZ1.. you ever ran M1T??? I think I know the size of my balls. I can post a pic if yall would like, perhaps I need some unbiased opinions.

AZ1 said:

I think the only way we'll ever know for sure is if somebody wants to run a few different cycles and get bloodwork done every week.

I dont think diablo could be right about your nuts being "on or off". In his first reply he states that your body will cease to produce natural test "as soon as" exogenous test is introduced be it "1mg or 800mg". Test production simply does not react that fast. Its not like insulin.

Your body reacts differently to different amounts of androgens, hence the reason sides are dose dependant, even gyno which is very dose dependant. Your body takes time to adjust hormones, a lot of time.

All of his statments cant possibly be correct or it would follow that he is absolutely incorrect about test production stopping "as soon as" you substitute it due to the claim of nut shrinkage being directly related to no more natural test. It cant be both ways. If the one is true, then it is impossible to explain the lack of shrinkage in many guys. Shrinkage happens less than no shrinkage and if we poll the guys on here we will see that.

In his second reply he makes it clear that acording to him your nuts are either on or off, but fails to address BREW's lack of shrinkage in the presence of exogenous test when his first claim was that test production automatically stops with that exogenouse introduction.
I dont want to sound like a dick, but it's really cut and dry. no if's, and's, or but's about it. It cant be both ways which means nobody here knows the answer for sure.

I'm not here to pimp for pyramiding, and I see no reason to ramp up, possibly down, but without seeing weekly bloodwork on different cycles we will never know. As far as going down, yeah 200 will not build muscle, but it is not going to put you in the supraphysiological levels either and your nuts may just know it and begin to fire up again.

Besides all this, What about the entire concept ot SHIC's. They are based on the idea that your body does not react that fast to hormonal changes. And they absolutely work as far as keeping the sides off so we know this is true. So maybe coming down slow gives your HPTA less of a shock too, and gives it the time it needs to make PCT easier and smoother, almost like giving it a little heads up.

Click to expand...

i am thinking of doin that with the blood tests to see what comes of this idea...

AsK me if I ever ran it?

Heres one for u 2.

Can You Read?

Never disagreed with your nuts shrinking. In fact I would agree you probably do have very tiny tiny nuts, but thats not the topic here or even close to what we were discussing. Does that have anything to do with pyramiding test? Dont know what your point is. Nobody disagreed with you so maybe you can write something people will understand.

I simply stated (and now I'm restating) that m1t is not related to any injectable ester of test. So for people who cant read between the lines I'll go a little deeper. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT M1T. And it is different. Start a new thread for that.

Different androgens cause different reactions. But thats not the topic here, we arent talking about how winny makes your joints hurt either. M1T will fuck you up, sure its a whole different animal. We're not talking about it though, you dont see anadrol or d-bol or any other more potent androgens listed here either, So maybe brew will get your point and can explain it to me, but really What is it? To bring attention to your tiny nuts. I suggest a new thread so everyone can see them.

AZ1 said:

M1t is not related to any injectable testosterone ester.

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I'm confused what you are trying to say:

If you are saying M1T is not related to an Ester. No kidding. An Ester isn't a steroid. Everyone knows that.

If you are saying M1T is not related to Testosterone. You're wrong because it is.

????

Can you please clarify for me what you were saying?

This reminds me of that post the other day where the kid basically asked "uh how many eggs are required to make this batch of chocolate chip cookies" For those of you who read it, you get it.

Zylo, you say you are confused about what I am saying and then proceed to post two things you are considering yet neither is what I wrote. The answer is that I am saying neither of the things YOU wrote. Instead of simply asking me to clarify, you presume that I either posted some crap that "everyone knows" is wrong or that I must be wrong. I will give a little explanation after I make a few selections from my post and if it doesnt click than maybe someone else can help you.

Your first guess is lame and you admit it by saying "everyone knows" that. True. No comment needed on that one. So if "everyone knows", lets not assume that I dont.

Consider these quotes refering to M1T from my previous posts.
"it is different"
"Different androgens cause different reactions."
"sure its a whole different animal."

If you want to convince yourself that M1T and test are anything alike and that M1T has a place in a thread about pyramiding test and its affect on HPTA recovery times, go ahead. You can believe that if you want, as we know beliefs dont matter. The only thing that matters is the truth. Believing the world is flat wont make it happen.

My point is simple, when you change the makeup of a steroid molecule it can have drastic differences as far as how it is received, held on to the AR's, and the results it will have on your body. 1-test is not test, just because it is somewhat similar. M1Test is even farther away. Just because they share the letters T-E-S-T in that same order dont make them "related" for the purpose of this thread. There are many molecules that share the same elements, as there are only so many elements on earth. If you want to play semantics as far as being "related" goes, then go ahead, but I dont think you are going to have a bunch of other bros jumping on to tell me that Methyl Dien is "related" to Methyl Trien. They get it!

To further illustrate my point consider this. What exactly does an ester do? Does it hang on forever, no. It falls off to allow free test to flow. This by any stretch of the imagination, is simply not "related" to how M1T works. Here is a quote from a page where you can go and read about it all you want. "When administered intramuscularly, the androgen ester is slowly absorbed into the circulation where it is then rapidly metabolized to an active unesterified testosterone." And here is the link: http://www.ironmag.com/archive/ironmag/2001_gw_esters.htm

So to sum it up, what I was saying is that on a thread about pyramiding testosterone and its affect on HPTA recovery times, M1T has no place because they arent "RELATED" I dont know how else to spell it out bro, hope this helps.

ahhh az1 is my little ray of sunshine LOL actually guys i am thinkin of gettin a "test subject" to try this little experiment..i think it would really be beneficial here...

AZ1 said:

If you want to convince yourself that M1T and test are anything alike and that M1T has a place in a thread about pyramiding test and its affect on HPTA recovery times, go ahead. You can believe that if you want, as we know beliefs dont matter. The only thing that matters is the truth. Believing the world is flat wont make it happen.

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Poor AZ1.

You are way off bro'

M1T is very similar to Test. It is Testosterone in an Oral Form. You can go read that anywhere and it will tell you. Sorry you are confused bro'

Like you just said, you can believe the world is flat as much as you want but it isn't.

If you want to believe that M1T is completely different. Go nuts.

You're wrong though.

Also, while that ironmag.com article was a good little read on how esters work, it has absolutley nothing to do with what we're talking about or the similarities or differences between M1T & Test.........

I also find it funny that you think you know how steroids affect different people. Why on earth would you try and tell Southern Comfort his nuts aren't test sensitive? You have no clue how they affect him bro'

You dont understand logic like a woman. Let me break this last one down in college terms. The "premise" of his statement is that he has very test sensitive nuts, but this premise is based on use of M1T. One is not the other. "I must have very "test sensitive" nuts then! I run Methyl 1-Test......" Thats Why.

I know life must have been tough for you when all the other sixth graders kept getting bigger and bigger each week but find someone else to go back and forth with you, I clarified things for you because thats what you asked for. bye.