also I forgot to tell ya'll Igf also, like I've said not to be up their ass or anything, but it's incredible, I thought it was all b.s. when people were saying that they were getting pumps so crazy that they would quit their workout. My main thing is that I zero joint pain or any kind of pain while I'm lifting which hasn't happened in a while, also I put the order in and next day maybe 2 and it's here... imo ya can't beat em