TROUBLESHOOTING A PROBLEM

HEY ALL I HOPE THT TODAY IS A GOOD DAY FOR ALL AND U AND UR FAMILY IS SAFE,WELL,,AND IN GREAT SPIRITS FOR TODAY AND TOMM,,, SHIT CAPPS ARE ON LOL.,.. SORRY..

ok i have a problem im trying to troubleshoot my way through and need some input on what u think tht it could be,,, i recently tried out a new supplier and i brewed some test e form it,, everything went good and brew was successful,, all the way until i pinned it and had mad pip for like 3 days form it.. so my first thought was there is bacteria in my finished AAS, so like before when i had this problem.. i stuck it in the oven @ 230f for 30 minutes to kill the bacteria in my finished AAS,, and i went to pinn again today and the same thing happened.. so im thinking tht the ESTERIFICATION PROCESS wasnt or was not properly done right, if at all.. lol.. i do know tht carbolic acid can produce the same results and symptoms as pinning gear with bacteria inside it.. so here is my conundrum ..lol any body have any input on this or a better way of sterilizing finished AAS from bacteria or carbolic acid.. lmao.. hope yall have a great day.,.

I've heard this more and more the past few years board members on here have even said they will not use test E any more because of it. If you have brewed your self then you know how much BA. So what else is left. Filter size??
Im not sure you can remove the carbolic acid once it is mixed as it should be removed before the product is finished. This sucks bro. Cut with oil maybe to reduce concentration. Sorry I'm no help. Just wanted to let you know you are not the only one this has happen to. Shit Eastern Europe and China raws bro

YEAH I THINK CHARLIE IS CORRECT, I MEAN IM NO BREWER, BUT I AM ALMOST CERTAIN SOMEONE WAS JUST SPEAKING ABOUT THIS EXACT PROBLEM HERE NOT TOO LONG AGO WITH TEST E AND SOMEONE SAID IT HAS BEEN A COMMON ISSUE WITH TEST E FROM MANY DIFFERENT SUPPLIERS. SO AS CHARLIE SAID, I THINK IT MIGHT BE YOUR POWDER BRUTHA

hey guys thanks you so very much for this input... it is much appriciated and very much helpful... yes ive been brewing for a good while and this is the first time tht this has happened to me... charlie u said something about the filters and im pretty sure tht my filters are spot on i use MAIZE VALLEY MEMBRANES one of the best manufacturer of membranes actually in the world.. and i use PTFE 47MM 0.22 and actually these filters filter out a wide range of bacterial and chemical comopounds known to man.. the best one to use for tht one,, and i also had tht in mind as well charlie so i thank you for sharing tht with me.. and presser my frined i did see something in here about the very same thing awhuile back.. and im bummed to hear tht because i love test e.. i hope it gets straightened out... OK REVIEW ON TROUBLESHOOT PROBLEM ..

ok this carbolic acid is got to be the smoking gun to my problem simply becaseu i woke up today (about an hour ago) and i virtually feel no pain where i had it last night... AMAZING.. lmao.. and if there was bacteria in my AAS tht i pinned yesterday it would still be imflammed and still hurting really bad... form my experience it takes a good 72hrs maybe more for the immune system to fight off the bacteria where the shot was pinned.. SO THE ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION IS THT THERE WAS ACIDIC COMPOUND STILL IN THE FINISHES AAS (god dammit !!!!!!!! lol ) becasue they didnt or porly completed the ESTERIFICATION PROCESS !!!! SUX !!!!!! so tht means tht im going to have to break my filtration system, back out and try to get rid of the carbolix acid.... and im thinking tht filtering again and even re-baking my AAS to see if this will .. im also going to have to use another membrane for this type of filktering im thinking to get rid of this carbolix acid thts trapped in the brew.. im thinking maybe a Hydrophobic PTFE with Supported PP Net should rid the acid.. dammit now i have to buy new filters... lmao... thanks guys will keep u posted on how to get rid of the acids .. i hope tht it works.. ttyl

I had issues before with test e and carbolic acid. There seems to be some floating around.

yes ive been hearing of it as well. i just never delve to much into it becaseu its never been a problem for me until now.. lol but here is what happens .....

ESTERIFICATION PROCESS

Esterification is the chemical process for making esters, which are compounds of the [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]chemical [FONT=inherit !important]structure[/FONT][/FONT] R-COOR', where R and R' are either alkyl or aryl groups. The most common method for preparing esters is to heat a [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]carboxylic [/FONT][FONT=inherit !important]acid[/FONT][/FONT], R-CO-OH, with an alcohol, R'-OH, while removing the water that is formed. A mineral acid catalyst is usually needed to make the reaction occur at a useful rate.[/FONT]
Esters can also be formed by various other reactions. These include the reaction of an alcohol with an acid chloride (R-CO-Cl) or an anhydride (R-CO-O-COR'). Early studies into the [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]chemical [FONT=inherit !important]mechanism[/FONT][/FONT] of esterification, concluded that the ester product (R-CO-OR') is the union of the acyl group (R-C=O-) from the acid, RCO-OH, with the alkoxide group (R'O-) from the alcohol, R'-OH rather than other possible combinations.[/FONT]

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The chemical structure of the alcohol, the acid, and the acid catalyst used in the esterification reaction all effect its rate. Simple alcohols such as methanol (CH<small>[SUB]3[/SUB]</small>OH) and ethanol (CH<small>[SUB]3[/SUB]</small>CH<small>[SUB]2[/SUB]</small>OH) react very fast because they are relatively small and contain no carbon atom sidechains that would hinder their reaction. These differing rates of reaction were first reported by Nikolay Menschutkin (1842-1907) in 1879-83. He also noted that simple acids such as acetic acid or vinegar (CH<small>[SUB]3[/SUB]</small>CO<small>[SUB]2[/SUB]</small>H) form esters very easily. The most common acid catalysts are hydrochloric acid, HCl, and sulfuric acid, H<small>[SUB]2[/SUB]</small>SO<small>[SUB]4[/SUB]</small>, because they are very strong acids. At the end of the esterification reaction, the acid catalyst has to be neutralized in order to isolate the product. German chemists, during World War II, developed solid acid catalysts or ion exchange resins for use in the manufacture of esters. These solid catalysts work well with acid sensitive esters because they can be separated from the product byfiltration and therefore, the catalyst does not spend very much time in contact with the acid unstable product.
The esterification process has a broad spectrum of uses from the preparation of highly specialized esters in the chemical laboratory to the production of millions of tons of commercial ester products. These commercial compounds are manufactured by either a batch or a continuous synthetic process. The batch procedure involves a single pot reactor that is filled with the acid and alcohol reactants. The acid catalyst is added and the water removed as the reaction proceeds. This method is most often used by chemists in the laboratory, but in a few cases, it is used by industry to make large quantities of esters. This batch process usually requires reactors that hold extremely large volumes of reactants. Butyl acetate is commonly prepared from butanol and acetic acid by this method. The continuous process for making esters was first patented in 1921 and has been used extensively in the manufacture of large quantities of esters. This procedure involves the mixing of streams of the reactants into a reaction chamber while the product is removed at the same time. Continuous esterification has the advantage that larger quantities of products can be prepared in shorter periods of time. This procedure can be run for days or weeks without interruption, but requires special equipment and special chemical engineeringconsiderations. The continuous esterification process is used industrially to make methyl acetate from acetic acid and methanol and ethyl acetate from acetic acid and ethanol.
The alternative process of making esters from the reaction of an alcohol with an anhydride is important in the manufacture of drugs. This reaction gives an acid as a by-product.

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Acetic anhydride, CH<small>[SUB]3[/SUB]</small>-CO-O-CO-CH<small>[SUB]3[/SUB]</small>, a derivative of acetic acid, the acid in vinegar, is the most commonly used anhydride reactant. Phenyl acetate, one ester prepared industrially by this method, is an important intermediate in the synthesis of acetaminophen. Aspirin, or acetylsalicylic acid, is also prepared in large scale by the esterification reaction of an alcohol with acetic anhydride. This anhydride is important in the production of cellulose acetate by the esterification of cellulose or cotton. Cellulose acetate was first prepared in 1865 and was used extensively during World War I to coat airplane wings. Today, cellulose acetate finds its largest application as the fibrous material used in cigarette filters. It is also used in various yarns and textiles and to make the tips of felt-tip pens. Phthalic anhydride, an anhydride derivative of a benzene or phenyl ring, yields dimethyl phthalate when reacted with methanol in a reaction to that described for acetic anhydride. Dimethyl phthalate is used as a mosquito repellent and in the manufacture of certain polyesters. It is also a component in hair sprays and is added to plastics to soften them.


[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Read more: [/FONT]Esterification - Acid, Reaction, Esters, and Acetic - JRank Articles[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]http://science.jrank.org/pages/2573/Esterification.html#ixzz3MrLbGzjz

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]and what happens is they get average joes hired to the plant where they make these compounds,,, then there told what to do and blend and how much to put into the process of making these compounds... these average joes are not chemist nor bodybuilders,, and most deff nor really give a shit if the levels are correct and numbers arnt exact.. its just another job to them and if there off on the numbers a bit or volumes tht need to be meet they tend to over look it and follow through the process.. this is how the acid compounds are still being left over because its not done correctly nor im some cases passed by and overlooked.. because in china its all about quantity and producing ,, not about quality !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and rules on making sure the process is done right.... AND WE PAY THE PRICE FOR IT. !!!!!!!!!!! THTS LIFE.... LOL [/FONT]

So my question is after reading all that and not understanding that much of it. Is can it be removed???

yes my friend it can be removed with the first filter u do for ur brews but u have to use a specific PTFE UNLAMINATED HYDROBOLIC MEMBRANE FILTER DISC.. I DONT THINK THT THEY ,MAKE THESE IN SYRINGE EITHER I LOOK AND DIDNT FIND ANY.. THERE EXPENSIVE AS HELL BUT WELL WORTH IT .. 50 PK FOR LIKE 200 TO 250$$$ ..

I use these for Test E and for Tren E bro. They both have the acid in them now because most companies don't want to complete the process as its an easy way to cut corners and make a bigger profit. Sad part is China is not producing 100% raws anymore. When guys say 98% is good I will take it, that 2% acid is whats fucking them up and then they complain. In 2012 the test e started being developed in mass volume without fully completing the process, some test C and Tren e was the same way. however I myself do not have any issues with this as my products are pre 2012 and vacuum sealed I have seen major issues with raws that are unpure.

Do you remember when baby formula in china was killing kids? If they are willing to substitute chemicals in baby formula then why not what you order? All to make a profit..just a thought, so be careful out there

hey powder so are u saying tht the ulaminated hydrobolic ptfe membranes wont catch the acid during filtering.. i talked to the tech guy on sterilite and he said tht they would... ????? confused.. and hey bro u have pm i sent u on ur addy ....

Hey guys, just joined up to comment here.

I made some Test E @ 250mg/ml using the typical 2%BA/20%BB in cottonseed oil and it gave me bad PIP within a day. Wondering if it's the solvent or higher BA? Should I just dilute my batch? I've got like 90ml left of this shit...

it either one of 2 things bro... theres carbolic acid in ur brew or u have bacteria in ur brew due to pour brewing .... if u want to re-sterilze ur brew ,, stick it in the oven for 30min @ 230f,, this will kill the bacteria tht has formed in ur brew bro.. if the bad banded pip is still there then u have carbolic acid due to pour esterification ../

Do I need to vent my vials if I bake the gear? Also, won't that degrade the hormone a bit? Ah well I guess it's worth it, otherwise I think I'd just trash it, as the pain is pretty rough.

Damn, I'm fairly clean and OCD about hygiene too. Well, I'll try baking it tomorrow and pin in a fresh muscle to test out. Thanks for the reply.\

Would diluting help at all with the carbolic acid?

YES ALWAYS VENT FOR BAKING.. NO !!!!! IT WILL NOT DEGRADE UR HORMONE BRO.. I FILTER AT ALMOST THT HIGH OF TEMP.. LOL .. IF U STILL HAVE PAIN THEN ITS CARBOLIC ACID CRYSTALLIZING IN UR MUSCLE WITH THE GEAR... BASICALLY THE SAME SYMPTOMS AS A BACTERIAL PIN..

welcome to MuscleChemistry good shady and loads of guys are having PIP issues with their Testostrone enanthate! their may be an issue with the powder from what all I've been reading lately

I think I'm going to switch to test decanate on my next brew. It's only the ethane Estre that's the problem right?? Has any one brewed test deca.? Is it the same process as test E. Just thinking out loud here makes sense to switch estre and I need to buy some more any hows

charliebigspuds said:

I think I'm going to switch to test decanate on my next brew. It's only the ethane Estre that's the problem right?? Has any one brewed test deca.? Is it the same process as test E. Just thinking out loud here makes sense to switch estre and I need to buy some more any hows

Click to expand...

sounds like it might be a good idea to with to a new ester brutha, I'm no brewer and only know what i read here, but from the looks of it , a lot of guys are having major issues with their testosterone enanthate powders, very odd

Most can switch to Cyp with the same results. It depends on where the Test E is from and cost. I will throw this out there that most Pharm grade or Human Grade runs about 2$ or more a gram while cheaper commercial grade (90% or less purity) runs about $1-1.40$ gram. This is where most guys have their issues.

Never had a problem with my Test E brews but I would replace it with Cyp unless your getting batches from certain places. You can ask your source or even let them know.

I always here of test C not holding. I'm not a pro brewer by any means. I really can't be assed with the hassle of stuff crashing on me. And would hate my close friends coming back to me with a crashed brew. I plan on making a thread in the new year about good combo estre's. Test deca/ nan deca ect as mixing multi estre is new to me.
For some reason I can get test D pretty cheap compared to test C. Hence my sway to test deca.
I have never had any problems with my test E either. But seems more and more are. Crazy thing is test E is going for $100 for 10g at the moment. WHY I HAVE NO IDEA. LOL. TEST D IS $35

I wonder if some UGL's are pawning off their Enanthate as Cypionate or another ester?