coming "to that point" - real mass

D

dreww

MuscleChemistry Registered Member
ok, so my funds are to the point where I can really stock up on some gear.
Im about 210lbs now and gaining, but I know from past experience that after 210-220lbs, all I put on is fat. Ive done some high dosage cycles, but it was a long time ago and I wasn't as dedicated, experienced, or knowledgeable as I am now.

I want to do a real mass cycle, try to get to 240lbs. The biggest Ive ever been is a sloppy 230lbs. What kind of dosage am I really looking at? Not "stuff you've heard". I want to hear from guys that actually know, whether having done it themselves or know bros personally who have confided there dosages to them.

I will only be using test and deca (since tren/eq dont mass me up) and will probably be trying anadrol for the first time ever. So what dosages should I be looking at? I want to limit anadrol to 50mg daily since ive not used it before.
Im on 600mg/test 500mg/deca. Obviously not big dosages.

should I be looking at like 1-1.5gram of test, 600-800mg deca weekly? Ive never done anything like that before.
 
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Dreww 600 test 500 deca is just fine. with the right diet and that amount of gear you'll make it. I'm 5'11" 270lb and I didn't see any difference between 1000mg and 600mg of test, I'll never do 1000mg again. More is not always better.
 
I agree, 1000mg and over is too much. I make the same gains from 750mg/wk as I do with 1000 and over. The higher dosages just give more harsh side effects, like more water retention and higher blood pressure. I feel more stress on my heart too. The biggest aspect you should be looking at is your diet, it will make or break you. You have to get those calories and protein in. For me, 750mg of test a week is optimal for bulking. And 50mg of Anadrol should blow you up. One of my best cycles by the way, was just 50mg of Anadrol and 50mg of winstrol daily. Gained lots of muscle, full, hard, and vascular! Couldn't stay on long due to the liver toxicity. But test and drol will definitely blow you up with enough calories, a lot of it is going to be water though. Just my .02 cents.
 
Cracker69 said:
I agree, 1000mg and over is too much. I make the same gains from 750mg/wk as I do with 1000 and over. The higher dosages just give more harsh side effects, like more water retention and higher blood pressure. I feel more stress on my heart too. The biggest aspect you should be looking at is your diet, it will make or break you. You have to get those calories and protein in. For me, 750mg of test a week is optimal for bulking. And 50mg of Anadrol should blow you up. One of my best cycles by the way, was just 50mg of Anadrol and 50mg of winstrol daily. Gained lots of muscle, full, hard, and vascular! Couldn't stay on long due to the liver toxicity. But test and drol will definitely blow you up with enough calories, a lot of it is going to be water though. Just my .02 cents.
Click to expand...

trust me, I can get the calories in. The problem is that it all starts turining to fat at a certain point.

"naturally" Im only supposed to be about 160-170lbs lean, Im obviously ectomorphic. Im about 40+lbs over that now. Ive always said if Im not advancing in pretty much anything, I will just quit. Thats the way I am, and Im getting to that point. I want to be bigger than I am now and will do whatever it takes to get there.

From what Ive learned, all the "big" guys use at least a gram of test a week, and most use quite a bit more than that. Nobody really talks about it much on the boards, and I understand why (noobs and most on these boards aren't looking for the mass I am). I literally would like to go to a bodybuilding show and not feel like the tiniest guy there. If you've been to one you know what Im talking about.

210lbs at 6'1" is not big to me. Im not anal about numbers, but 250lbs+ at 6'1" is more my goal. I know its a far fetched goal for an ectomorph. But others have done it, so why cant I?
 
By all means, give the gram/wk a try and see how it goes. Everyone is different, and you may find your threshold is different as far as gains vs sides. I'm 5'8" and 220 at 9%bf, so not huge, but fairly large for my size, and that was just my experience as far as test doses go. The majority of people I know that are bigger guys, that do a gram or more a week don't really note any more gains, but a lot say that they realize more thermogenic properties at that level. EVERY big guy you talk to will tell you it is mostly diet. If you are gaining too much fat, re-evaluate your diet and adjust it accordingly. In my opinion, even while bulking, you shouldn't go beyond 10-11%BF, if anything for health reasons.

Another thing, my younger brother is built similar to you. He's 6'3" and about 205, but when he did experiment with the juice for a bit, what worked best for him and I both were compounds shorter acting in nature. We both made some of our best gains using 100mg of test suspension/day and 35mg of anadrol/day. He looked like Triple H at the end of his cycle.LOL
Seriously though, concentrate on diet. Missing a meal is cheating. Get 40-60grams of protien in every meal. Consume carbs mostly during and post workout along with protein. No carbs at night. If you feel like it's not enough, play with your carb intake by adding more complex carbs here and there til you find what's right for you. Consistency is key not only with your workouts, but your diet too.
 
I see where your coming from, and that your wanting to gain around 40 or so pounds, and your not wanting it to be fat either. You and I both know it is impossible to gain 40pounds of muscle, a good bitof it will be fat and water. Now it is possible over a good bit of time to gain 40 pounds of muscle, but def. not from just one cycle.
As you know you will have to take in A LOT of calories to get to the weight you want, and with all of those calories comes unwanted weight, so ide say either bulk up much as possible and have a lil higher b/f and just cut down towards the end, or get big as possible with eating somewhat clean to help keep down the b/f.
 
dreww said:
From what Ive learned, all the "big" guys use at least a gram of test a week, and most use quite a bit more than that. Nobody really talks about it much on the boards, and I understand why (noobs and most on these boards aren't looking for the mass I am). I literally would like to go to a bodybuilding show and not feel like the tiniest guy there. If you've been to one you know what Im talking about.

210lbs at 6'1" is not big to me. Im not anal about numbers, but 250lbs+ at 6'1" is more my goal. I know its a far fetched goal for an ectomorph. But others have done it, so why cant I?
Click to expand...

So you've been off for a while, right? If you have been off long enough then your body is ready "anabolic-ly" to grow. I can't remember the name of the guy, but I posted about his philosophies, and one of those was to run high dose short cycles. He essentially said that having been off for a long time then running 1000mg for a shorter cycle would make the body grow more than the typical longer running lower dosage cycles bb'ers run (that's with getting all the calories/protein as well). I'm hoping to "gear" up myself to try this out. I've been on a a lower dose of my HRT, and my body feels like I could grow a lot if I did that. I'm looking to get to 220.
 
Cracker69 said:
By all means, give the gram/wk a try and see how it goes. Everyone is different, and you may find your threshold is different as far as gains vs sides. I'm 5'8" and 220 at 9%bf, so not huge, but fairly large for my size, and that was just my experience as far as test doses go. The majority of people I know that are bigger guys, that do a gram or more a week don't really note any more gains, but a lot say that they realize more thermogenic properties at that level. EVERY big guy you talk to will tell you it is mostly diet. If you are gaining too much fat, re-evaluate your diet and adjust it accordingly. In my opinion, even while bulking, you shouldn't go beyond 10-11%BF, if anything for health reasons.

Another thing, my younger brother is built similar to you. He's 6'3" and about 205, but when he did experiment with the juice for a bit, what worked best for him and I both were compounds shorter acting in nature. We both made some of our best gains using 100mg of test suspension/day and 35mg of anadrol/day. He looked like Triple H at the end of his cycle.LOL
Seriously though, concentrate on diet. Missing a meal is cheating. Get 40-60grams of protien in every meal. Consume carbs mostly during and post workout along with protein. No carbs at night. If you feel like it's not enough, play with your carb intake by adding more complex carbs here and there til you find what's right for you. Consistency is key not only with your workouts, but your diet too.
Click to expand...

I agree with keeping bf% reasonable when bulking, and that is why I dont want to just go all out on eating. I never miss a meal. If anything, I sneak in an extra one.
As for your brother....did he KEEP any of the mass? If he's 205lbs now, then I would say no. That brings me to my next concern....I dont want to pull a Levrone and mass up and lose it. I know you cant keep it all, but I always keep alot of my gains and want to keep it that way.
Ive never tried suspension but want to. Its hard enough to find anything nowdays and I havent run across suspension in a while. If/when I do, I will get some.

bigworm6 said:
I see where your coming from, and that your wanting to gain around 40 or so pounds, and your not wanting it to be fat either. You and I both know it is impossible to gain 40pounds of muscle, a good bitof it will be fat and water. Now it is possible over a good bit of time to gain 40 pounds of muscle, but def. not from just one cycle.
As you know you will have to take in A LOT of calories to get to the weight you want, and with all of those calories comes unwanted weight, so ide say either bulk up much as possible and have a lil higher b/f and just cut down towards the end, or get big as possible with eating somewhat clean to help keep down the b/f.
Click to expand...
lol, I certainly wasn't saying I expect 40lbs from this cycle! Im just saying I havent added anything to my frame in quite some time. I just want to make progress again.

saudades said:
So you've been off for a while, right? If you have been off long enough then your body is ready "anabolic-ly" to grow. I can't remember the name of the guy, but I posted about his philosophies, and one of those was to run high dose short cycles. He essentially said that having been off for a long time then running 1000mg for a shorter cycle would make the body grow more than the typical longer running lower dosage cycles bb'ers run (that's with getting all the calories/protein as well). I'm hoping to "gear" up myself to try this out. I've been on a a lower dose of my HRT, and my body feels like I could grow a lot if I did that. I'm looking to get to 220.
Click to expand...

no, I havent been over in a while, been on about 3 months now of just test. But if I take alot of time off, Im afraid Ill lose mass and be back to just trying to gain it back with my next cycle.

as stated earlier though, I dont like high dose shorter cycles. They simply dont work for me. Only "typical" cycles have worked for me. 12+ weeks. Ive never gained strength or mass quickly, just slowly steady weekly gains. Hence why Ive long abandoned the short high dose cycles.
 
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Well, bottom line is you are going to need to maintain a certain level of androgens in your system to support a certain amount of muscle. Some gains can be kept, but once you are getting fifty to sixty pounds or more over what your natural test levels would support, you are just not going to keep it. Getting to a solid 240 and staying there will require a constant level of AAS for a certain length of time. I never really believed in short high dosed cycles either. I think it better to maintain consistent doses in your system to help solidify gains more and allow your body time to adapt to your new weight. The point I was trying to make earlier was that with the shorter acting compounds, optimum gains were made with less than a gram/wk. A semi pro bber I knew from Canada for example who was 260ish off season would take a maximum of maybe 2 weeks off, or just bridge with something light for a month max. Other than that, they are on all of the time to maintain that weight and to make consistent gains. Other things that help boost them along that they used in conjunction with AAS of course were insulin, IGF-1, PGF2A, HGH, etc... In no way am I condoning higher doses for long periods of time, it simply isn't healthy, but it is what is required to reach certain levels.
 
Cracker69 said:
Well, bottom line is you are going to need to maintain a certain level of androgens in your system to support a certain amount of muscle. Some gains can be kept, but once you are getting fifty to sixty pounds or more over what your natural test levels would support, you are just not going to keep it. Getting to a solid 240 and staying there will require a constant level of AAS for a certain length of time. I never really believed in short high dosed cycles either. I think it better to maintain consistent doses in your system to help solidify gains more and allow your body time to adapt to your new weight. The point I was trying to make earlier was that with the shorter acting compounds, optimum gains were made with less than a gram/wk. A semi pro bber I knew from Canada for example who was 260ish off season would take a maximum of maybe 2 weeks off, or just bridge with something light for a month max. Other than that, they are on all of the time to maintain that weight and to make consistent gains. Other things that help boost them along that they used in conjunction with AAS of course were insulin, IGF-1, PGF2A, HGH, etc... In no way am I condoning higher doses for long periods of time, it simply isn't healthy, but it is what is required to reach certain levels.
Click to expand...


I certainly understand having to stay on to maintain that weight - and I dont have a problem with that. I know the possible side effects and am willing to take that risk. I always have been from the day I started bodybuilding.

as for gains with lower doses of shorter acting compounds - thats kinda obvious as shorter esters allow you to use more of the active compounds. 100mg test suspesion is 100mg of test. 100mg of enanthate is more like 72mg.

I would like to go the igf/hgh/etc. route, but feel Im not to that point really yet. Once even large doses of AAS seem to yeild minimal gains (and Im alot bigger), then I could definitely see the point in using those thing.
 
good luck dreww. Ive been off for over a year now and am fuggin ready to start a cycle. I just gotta give myself a few more months to get back to where i wanna be before i start. Good luck man. You can make it it will take some time but youll get there. Post pics along the way too.
 
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