Anavar opinions please...
- Thread starter jaywooly
- Start date
monsteronjuice
New member
turinabol- safe like anavar and get what you want
Fina- harder then anavar but better results
both of these are alot cheaper then anavar
Fina- harder then anavar but better results
both of these are alot cheaper then anavar
finephysique
New member
Var is okay but a bit over-rated to be honest, similar to primo in that respect, it does work well at high doses but there are lots of cheaper alternatives
monsteronjuice
New member
run the t-bol @ 40-50 mg ED
monsteronjuice
New member
turinabol article
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Written By Hooker:
Oral-Turinabol
(4-chlorodehydromethyltestosterone)
Molecular Weight:278.16
Formula:C20 H30 O2
Manufacturer: Underground Labs only
Effective Dose (Men): 10-40mgs/day
Effective Dose (Women): 5-15mgs/day
Active life: 16 hours*
Detection Time: 6 weeks
Anabolic/ Androgenic ratio: >100:>0
Oral Turinabol was first developed by scientists in East Germany for their Olympic and national-level athletes to use. This, plus the eventual removal of it from the market caused OT to become a very “sexy” drug for athletes to try and obtain. The East Germans studied this drug pretty extensively for many years and some of the success of this now defunct country was attributed to this drug, which made it’s first appearance to athletes in East Germany as little blue “Vitamins” their coaches gave to them. This drug has been discontinued by all of the major pharmaceutical houses, and is only found through certain underground labs. Even though some UnderGround Labs have access to this item, and it appears on their price-lists, it’s still rare enough. I believe it was first produced in the last half decade by a certain cat in Thailand. It’s my speculation that it’s on the cusp of either becoming very popular, to the point where every Underground Lab will start carrying their own version of it, or it will disappear again and only be carried by a select few, if any, suppliers.
The easiest way to explain this drug is that it is a derivative of Dianabol. Though it is a derivative of our old friend Diana, it’s still quite different...remember, Equipoise is estrified Dianabol, and really has nothing in common with it, in terms of real-world-effects. Let’s examine OT in relation to D-bol for now, though. The first similarity between the two is that they have both been 17-alpha-alkylated (a carbon atom was added at the 17th position) to survive the first pass through the liver. This, of course, increases hepatoxicity (liver toxicity). OT has a much lower level of androgenic activity compared to dianabol, but a better balance/ratio of anabolic and androgenic effects. It has a rating of a 0 (according to the Vida reference) for androgenic properties and a 53 for anabolic properties based on a score of 100 each for testosterone. This promotes more of a "hard" look, of what competition bodybuilders often call “quality” muscle. You do not get the same "puffy" look as you would on d-bol, and many people have thus compared the results they’ve gotten from OT to Anavar. Actually, though, this stuff is simply dianabol with a 4-chloro alteration, the same alteration found in Clostebol.
Due to this 4-chloro substitution in the A-Ring of its Steran Nucleus, this drug cannot be aromatized (3). This is, as you know, quite beneficial and is one of the reasons Oral Turinabol has been called a "gentle d-bol.” You will probably not get any typical estrogenic side effects like water retention, acne, gyno, etc… at any dose of this drug. A couple of studies I read examining male athletes over a period of six weeks were given 10 mg OT/day did not show any indications of health-threatening effects. It has been recommended that men should take between 20-40mg every day and women a 5mg every day, and I generally think that it is not very strong (as compared to many other orals) and wouldn't drop below the 40mg mark if I were to use it personally.
The only negative thing I have heard about this drug is that in high doses (10+mg) virilization has been seen in women(14) and there has been at least one case of testicular tumors, and one case of a guy who suffered adverse effects from 5 years of high-dose use of OT (2)(4). It should be noted that the former East Germans did many experiments with this drug in high doses though, and found it to be a very suitable compound for their athletes. Many of the women suffered virilization at higher doses, though. During the 68-72 Olympic cycles, the East German Sports OT program made its biggest impact. It was around this time, that the East German weightlifters were taking over 10g/year of OT, and their leading male sprinter was taking under 730mgs/year of OT (14). I think this tells me that for real weight gains, and huge gains in the weight room, you’re going to need bank-breaking dosages of this stuff. On the bright side, if you are an athlete looking to get faster, a little bit of OT will get you there pretty easily, and with minimal (if any) side effects). I think that it’s inability to cause negative side effects, and it’s ability to produce a favorable increase in lean body mass and thus a favorable increase in strength/speed and an athlete’s strength:bodyweight ratio is what turned the East German coaches and scientists on. It must be noted that, at the time, this stuff was mostly undetectable, and that was certainly a sought after trait by the East Germans, who were looking to circumvent the drug testing procedures of the IOC. Now, of course, OT is detectable, as once it’s administered to man, three major metabolites are formed: 6 beta-hydroxy-turinabol, 6 beta, 12-dihydroxy-turinabol, and 6 beta, 16-dihydroxy-turinabol (5)(8)(9).All of those metabolites are now detectable by drug screeners. In much smaller quantities at least another three metabolites are excreted, one of which could be identified as 17 epi-turinabol (5), and is easily detected by modern drug tests... No measurable amounts of OT itself is detected in any of the urine samples investigated in sports doping procedures, but the presence of the metabolites is enough to warrant a positive result, and a failed test. Keeping all of this in mind, it is still important to note that the rate of metabolism and urinary excretion or Oral-Turinabol is reasonably fast (5), even though it is technically eliminated biphastically (in two stages) by the body, with a terminal 16hr ½ life (1). I think that the sports-doping-party-poopers (The NCAA and IOC) OT is notorious for increasing the time it will take for your blood to clot because it has spontaneous fibrinolytic properties. “Fibrinolytic effects” means that the destruction of fibrin (an insoluble fibrous protein produced in the liver from the soluble protein) is happening in your body. Fibrinogen is important during the blood clotting process, as it is a soluble protein in the blood that is converted to insoluble fibrin by the action of the enzyme thrombin in response to tissue damage. (6)(7) Thus, you will bleed for longer than usual when on this stuff….combine that with the fact that steroids raise your hematocrit and you’ll be spending your entire morning trying to stop the bleeding if you cut yourself shaving. Well…that’s probably an exaggeration….but not by much.
I’ve already told you that this stuff is a potent lean tissue builder, and good for cutting. But that’s mostly of interest for bodybuilders…Now, with regards to athletics, what kind of results can we expect? Well, I was digging through the old East German literature, and found that they reported that their world class strength athletes were making some pretty remarkable improvements on OT, over a 4 year Olympic training period: Male Shot-putters were adding 2.5-4m to their shot throws, 10-12m on their Discus throw, and 6-10m to their Hammer throws. Female athletes gained even more. Lets take a look at a chart representing the improvements made by one particular female strength athlete (*she held the World Record for the shot put, at the time of her beginning OT administration), over a the period of July 18th 1968 through October 13th 1972. During the time she was taking OT, she improved her throw from under 18m to over 20m (yes, this is a 2m+ improvement, to a world record holding throw, in one Olympic Cycle). She was taking roughly 5-15mgs/day of OT in the beginning, but worked up to 35mgs/day before she was done with her Olympic cycle. Her throws even while “off” OT even improved a bit, leading to speculation that there are a lot of permanent gains to be had with OT. Anyway, here are the charts representing her intake of OT, as well as her improvements over her 4 year over her 4 year Olympic training regimen:
(14)
(14)
Did all of this work for anyone else? Well, as I told you, virtually everyone who was involved with the East German Olympic Training program was on steroids of some kind, but OT was by and far away the most popular. They had access to some pretty weird stuff, too…intranasal testosterone, etc…
So…back to OT…it is notable from my readings on this compound that women saw much more positive effects from OT than men (this is true of all steroids, though). Women also saw more side effects, and generally found the side effects to be more severe and unbearable than their male counterparts. Unfortunately, they also (sometimes) tended to use higher dosages than the men did; often up to 2x as high. So here are some examples of the ORAL Turinabol dosages the East German Female Olympians used to bring home their medals:
(14)
Shocked? Don’t be. This was during the cold war, and victory in the Olympics was seen as a victory for a certain way of life and a certain ideology; defeat was unthinkable and unacceptable.
Is the recent reappearance of Oral-Turinabol on the black market going to change athletics or bodybuilding dramatically? No…I doubt it…a combination of price ($1/10mgs average) and availability may cause this stuff to remain an understated tool at our disposal. It is, however, a viable tool in a lean mass cycle, cutting cycle, or any athlete’s drug intake routine.
References:
1. [The pharmacokinetics of Oral-Turinabol in humans]
Pharmazie. 1991 Sep;46(9):650-4. German.
2. Department of Urology, Universitaetsklinikum "Carl Gustav Carus," Technical University of Dresden,Dresden, Germany
3. Influence of 1-double bond and 11 beta-hydroxy group on stereospecific microbial reductions of 4-en-3-oxo-steroids.
J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Oct;25(4):561-6.
4. Intratesticular leiomyosarcoma in a young man after high dose doping with Oral-Turinabol: a case report.
Cancer. 1999 Oct 15;86(8):1571-5.
5. GC and capillary column GC/MS determination of synthetic anabolic steroids. II. 4-chloro-methandienone (oral turinabol) and its metabolites.
J Chromatogr Sci. 1983 Sep;21(9):405-10.
6. [Activation of the fibrinolytic system with dehydrochlormethyltestosterone]
Folia Haematol Int Mag Klin Morphol Blutforsch. 1984;111(4):556-62. German.
7. [Modification of hypofibrinolytic states by dehydrochlormethyltestosterone]
Folia Haematol Int Mag Klin Morphol Blutforsch. 1984;111(4):563-6. German.
8. [Application of microbial enzymes in studies of steroid metabolism (author's transl)]
Acta Microbiol Acad Sci Hung. 1975;22(4):397-402. Review. German.
9. [Application of microbial enzymes in studies of steroid metabolism (author's transl)]
Acta Microbiol Acad Sci Hung. 1975;22(4):397-402. Review. German.
10. [ON THE PHARMACOLOGY OF "ORAL TURINABOL".]
Dtsch Gesundheitsw. 1965 Apr 15;20:690-1. German. No abstract available.
11. Berendonk B. Doping. Von der Forschung zum Betrug. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowohlt Taschenbuchverlag. 1992:448pp
12. [4-CHLORO-DELTA-1-METHYLTESTOSTERONE (ORAL TURINABOL), A NEW EFFECTIVE ORAL ANABOLIC STEROID.]
Dtsch Gesundheitsw. 1965 Apr 15;20:670-4. German. No abstract available.
13. Bauersfeld K-H. Olek J. Meibner H. Hannemann D. Spenke J. Analyse des Einsatzes u. M. in den leichtathletischen Wurf/Stob-disziplinen und Versuch trainingsmethodischer Abteilungen und Verallgemeinerungen. Science Center of the DVfl 1973:41pp.
14. Clinical Chemistry 43:7. 1262-1279 (1997
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Written By Hooker:
Oral-Turinabol
(4-chlorodehydromethyltestosterone)
Molecular Weight:278.16
Formula:C20 H30 O2
Manufacturer: Underground Labs only
Effective Dose (Men): 10-40mgs/day
Effective Dose (Women): 5-15mgs/day
Active life: 16 hours*
Detection Time: 6 weeks
Anabolic/ Androgenic ratio: >100:>0
Oral Turinabol was first developed by scientists in East Germany for their Olympic and national-level athletes to use. This, plus the eventual removal of it from the market caused OT to become a very “sexy” drug for athletes to try and obtain. The East Germans studied this drug pretty extensively for many years and some of the success of this now defunct country was attributed to this drug, which made it’s first appearance to athletes in East Germany as little blue “Vitamins” their coaches gave to them. This drug has been discontinued by all of the major pharmaceutical houses, and is only found through certain underground labs. Even though some UnderGround Labs have access to this item, and it appears on their price-lists, it’s still rare enough. I believe it was first produced in the last half decade by a certain cat in Thailand. It’s my speculation that it’s on the cusp of either becoming very popular, to the point where every Underground Lab will start carrying their own version of it, or it will disappear again and only be carried by a select few, if any, suppliers.
The easiest way to explain this drug is that it is a derivative of Dianabol. Though it is a derivative of our old friend Diana, it’s still quite different...remember, Equipoise is estrified Dianabol, and really has nothing in common with it, in terms of real-world-effects. Let’s examine OT in relation to D-bol for now, though. The first similarity between the two is that they have both been 17-alpha-alkylated (a carbon atom was added at the 17th position) to survive the first pass through the liver. This, of course, increases hepatoxicity (liver toxicity). OT has a much lower level of androgenic activity compared to dianabol, but a better balance/ratio of anabolic and androgenic effects. It has a rating of a 0 (according to the Vida reference) for androgenic properties and a 53 for anabolic properties based on a score of 100 each for testosterone. This promotes more of a "hard" look, of what competition bodybuilders often call “quality” muscle. You do not get the same "puffy" look as you would on d-bol, and many people have thus compared the results they’ve gotten from OT to Anavar. Actually, though, this stuff is simply dianabol with a 4-chloro alteration, the same alteration found in Clostebol.
Due to this 4-chloro substitution in the A-Ring of its Steran Nucleus, this drug cannot be aromatized (3). This is, as you know, quite beneficial and is one of the reasons Oral Turinabol has been called a "gentle d-bol.” You will probably not get any typical estrogenic side effects like water retention, acne, gyno, etc… at any dose of this drug. A couple of studies I read examining male athletes over a period of six weeks were given 10 mg OT/day did not show any indications of health-threatening effects. It has been recommended that men should take between 20-40mg every day and women a 5mg every day, and I generally think that it is not very strong (as compared to many other orals) and wouldn't drop below the 40mg mark if I were to use it personally.
The only negative thing I have heard about this drug is that in high doses (10+mg) virilization has been seen in women(14) and there has been at least one case of testicular tumors, and one case of a guy who suffered adverse effects from 5 years of high-dose use of OT (2)(4). It should be noted that the former East Germans did many experiments with this drug in high doses though, and found it to be a very suitable compound for their athletes. Many of the women suffered virilization at higher doses, though. During the 68-72 Olympic cycles, the East German Sports OT program made its biggest impact. It was around this time, that the East German weightlifters were taking over 10g/year of OT, and their leading male sprinter was taking under 730mgs/year of OT (14). I think this tells me that for real weight gains, and huge gains in the weight room, you’re going to need bank-breaking dosages of this stuff. On the bright side, if you are an athlete looking to get faster, a little bit of OT will get you there pretty easily, and with minimal (if any) side effects). I think that it’s inability to cause negative side effects, and it’s ability to produce a favorable increase in lean body mass and thus a favorable increase in strength/speed and an athlete’s strength:bodyweight ratio is what turned the East German coaches and scientists on. It must be noted that, at the time, this stuff was mostly undetectable, and that was certainly a sought after trait by the East Germans, who were looking to circumvent the drug testing procedures of the IOC. Now, of course, OT is detectable, as once it’s administered to man, three major metabolites are formed: 6 beta-hydroxy-turinabol, 6 beta, 12-dihydroxy-turinabol, and 6 beta, 16-dihydroxy-turinabol (5)(8)(9).All of those metabolites are now detectable by drug screeners. In much smaller quantities at least another three metabolites are excreted, one of which could be identified as 17 epi-turinabol (5), and is easily detected by modern drug tests... No measurable amounts of OT itself is detected in any of the urine samples investigated in sports doping procedures, but the presence of the metabolites is enough to warrant a positive result, and a failed test. Keeping all of this in mind, it is still important to note that the rate of metabolism and urinary excretion or Oral-Turinabol is reasonably fast (5), even though it is technically eliminated biphastically (in two stages) by the body, with a terminal 16hr ½ life (1). I think that the sports-doping-party-poopers (The NCAA and IOC) OT is notorious for increasing the time it will take for your blood to clot because it has spontaneous fibrinolytic properties. “Fibrinolytic effects” means that the destruction of fibrin (an insoluble fibrous protein produced in the liver from the soluble protein) is happening in your body. Fibrinogen is important during the blood clotting process, as it is a soluble protein in the blood that is converted to insoluble fibrin by the action of the enzyme thrombin in response to tissue damage. (6)(7) Thus, you will bleed for longer than usual when on this stuff….combine that with the fact that steroids raise your hematocrit and you’ll be spending your entire morning trying to stop the bleeding if you cut yourself shaving. Well…that’s probably an exaggeration….but not by much.
I’ve already told you that this stuff is a potent lean tissue builder, and good for cutting. But that’s mostly of interest for bodybuilders…Now, with regards to athletics, what kind of results can we expect? Well, I was digging through the old East German literature, and found that they reported that their world class strength athletes were making some pretty remarkable improvements on OT, over a 4 year Olympic training period: Male Shot-putters were adding 2.5-4m to their shot throws, 10-12m on their Discus throw, and 6-10m to their Hammer throws. Female athletes gained even more. Lets take a look at a chart representing the improvements made by one particular female strength athlete (*she held the World Record for the shot put, at the time of her beginning OT administration), over a the period of July 18th 1968 through October 13th 1972. During the time she was taking OT, she improved her throw from under 18m to over 20m (yes, this is a 2m+ improvement, to a world record holding throw, in one Olympic Cycle). She was taking roughly 5-15mgs/day of OT in the beginning, but worked up to 35mgs/day before she was done with her Olympic cycle. Her throws even while “off” OT even improved a bit, leading to speculation that there are a lot of permanent gains to be had with OT. Anyway, here are the charts representing her intake of OT, as well as her improvements over her 4 year over her 4 year Olympic training regimen:
(14)
(14)
Did all of this work for anyone else? Well, as I told you, virtually everyone who was involved with the East German Olympic Training program was on steroids of some kind, but OT was by and far away the most popular. They had access to some pretty weird stuff, too…intranasal testosterone, etc…
So…back to OT…it is notable from my readings on this compound that women saw much more positive effects from OT than men (this is true of all steroids, though). Women also saw more side effects, and generally found the side effects to be more severe and unbearable than their male counterparts. Unfortunately, they also (sometimes) tended to use higher dosages than the men did; often up to 2x as high. So here are some examples of the ORAL Turinabol dosages the East German Female Olympians used to bring home their medals:
(14)
Shocked? Don’t be. This was during the cold war, and victory in the Olympics was seen as a victory for a certain way of life and a certain ideology; defeat was unthinkable and unacceptable.
Is the recent reappearance of Oral-Turinabol on the black market going to change athletics or bodybuilding dramatically? No…I doubt it…a combination of price ($1/10mgs average) and availability may cause this stuff to remain an understated tool at our disposal. It is, however, a viable tool in a lean mass cycle, cutting cycle, or any athlete’s drug intake routine.
References:
1. [The pharmacokinetics of Oral-Turinabol in humans]
Pharmazie. 1991 Sep;46(9):650-4. German.
2. Department of Urology, Universitaetsklinikum "Carl Gustav Carus," Technical University of Dresden,Dresden, Germany
3. Influence of 1-double bond and 11 beta-hydroxy group on stereospecific microbial reductions of 4-en-3-oxo-steroids.
J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Oct;25(4):561-6.
4. Intratesticular leiomyosarcoma in a young man after high dose doping with Oral-Turinabol: a case report.
Cancer. 1999 Oct 15;86(8):1571-5.
5. GC and capillary column GC/MS determination of synthetic anabolic steroids. II. 4-chloro-methandienone (oral turinabol) and its metabolites.
J Chromatogr Sci. 1983 Sep;21(9):405-10.
6. [Activation of the fibrinolytic system with dehydrochlormethyltestosterone]
Folia Haematol Int Mag Klin Morphol Blutforsch. 1984;111(4):556-62. German.
7. [Modification of hypofibrinolytic states by dehydrochlormethyltestosterone]
Folia Haematol Int Mag Klin Morphol Blutforsch. 1984;111(4):563-6. German.
8. [Application of microbial enzymes in studies of steroid metabolism (author's transl)]
Acta Microbiol Acad Sci Hung. 1975;22(4):397-402. Review. German.
9. [Application of microbial enzymes in studies of steroid metabolism (author's transl)]
Acta Microbiol Acad Sci Hung. 1975;22(4):397-402. Review. German.
10. [ON THE PHARMACOLOGY OF "ORAL TURINABOL".]
Dtsch Gesundheitsw. 1965 Apr 15;20:690-1. German. No abstract available.
11. Berendonk B. Doping. Von der Forschung zum Betrug. Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowohlt Taschenbuchverlag. 1992:448pp
12. [4-CHLORO-DELTA-1-METHYLTESTOSTERONE (ORAL TURINABOL), A NEW EFFECTIVE ORAL ANABOLIC STEROID.]
Dtsch Gesundheitsw. 1965 Apr 15;20:670-4. German. No abstract available.
13. Bauersfeld K-H. Olek J. Meibner H. Hannemann D. Spenke J. Analyse des Einsatzes u. M. in den leichtathletischen Wurf/Stob-disziplinen und Versuch trainingsmethodischer Abteilungen und Verallgemeinerungen. Science Center of the DVfl 1973:41pp.
14. Clinical Chemistry 43:7. 1262-1279 (1997
i would take primo instead of anavar any day of the week
monsteronjuice
New member
no prob bro
personally i LOVE anavar... have used test/tren/dbol/winni/eq/deca/ etc in the past and var is in my "Top 5" list.
actually doing well right now cutting using only 20mg/day of var. of course "gains" will be more dramatic as dose goes up, but 20mg/day is an obvious difference to me.
actually doing well right now cutting using only 20mg/day of var. of course "gains" will be more dramatic as dose goes up, but 20mg/day is an obvious difference to me.
doctorwill
New member
Well, in terms of price, if you get it in powder form, from a good source, you could pay as little as $10 a gram for anavar. If you take 50 mg a day, that is a 20 day supply for a ten spot. Not too pricey for me. Hell, I almost spend that when I buy two grilled chicken sandwiches and two milks at Burger King for lunch.
I would recommend a dosage of about 60-80 mg a day. No sides to speak of, and at that dosage, you can get some nice gains in strength. Good for us old farts who are concerned about sides.
I would recommend a dosage of about 60-80 mg a day. No sides to speak of, and at that dosage, you can get some nice gains in strength. Good for us old farts who are concerned about sides.
doctorwill
New member
Mikeswift - I am talking about Anavar for $10 a gram in powder form. You need to make pills or make a liquid. I like the extra lazy approach where I pre-mix a week's worth (7 zip lock bags) of powder and add all the powdered supplements to each bag - so I get my powdered supplements in my protein shake. But the shake tastes pretty crappy. It was $12 a gram, but the price has gone down a bit.
doctorwill
New member
Many folks don't need any other anti-e if they use proviron. And it doesn't limit results like some real anti-es do. As Mikeswift said, it also allows more free test to circulate, so it stacks great with test. If you normally need an anti-e, this is a great solution. But it doesn't have the effect of tbol or var
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