Any cycle to cut or mass???

[wannabebigok]

In theory if you manipulate your diet, could you use any cycle to cut or mass up??

Ex: For my first cycle I am thinking of running the following:

Wk 1- 8 Omnadren 250Mg EW
Wk 1- 4 Dbol Thais 20mg ED
Wk 8 - 11 Dbol Thais at 20mg Day
Wk 11 Start post cycle

I weighed myself yesterday and Im at 190lbs...now thats not big but for me thats 14lbs just by eating like a pig the last while. I would ultimately like to be at 200 even with a lower bf%.

Whats a good way to put on mass while leaning out bf wise?

I was thinking of a mass workout with a high protein diet and 30min slow cardio every morning and post workout.

Along those lines..my buddy says that slow cardio will burn more fat and ensure that muscle is not lost. What is the theory and suggestions behind this?

A long post with a lot of questions. Thanks in advance. this board is by far the best one I've seen... Solid advice....solid bro's!!

 

[midwtchamp]

Theory yes, but when you cut you dont want to use the AAs that cause water retention such as dbol test e and deca....if you loose any fat at all you will still look smooth, which causes you to look as if you have a layer of fat. Having body hair does the same thing!

 

[wannabebigok]

Bumb...for Cardio question!

 

[rugbythug]

Personally I can't really do cardio on dbol I can barly walk to the end of the lane.

 

[BiggerStronger]

"They" say that if you walk you burn more calories than running if you go the same distance without breaking down muscle.

I would rather do some interval training with sprints (I.E. 400m, 300m, 200m, 100m, etc.) These training routines really improve cardio vascular health as well as can build muscle in your legs.

You are right about diet being key to any weight loss or weight gain. Like Midwtchamp said some AS's cause more water retention than others namely longer esters of test, deca, etc. such as enanthate, cypionate, decanoate(sp), etc.

If you run some liquidex, and some thermos or deuretics with these drugs its very possible to keep the water retention to a minimum and be able to cut the fat with cardio and diet.

Good luck to your upcoming cycle...My only suggestion for your cycle is you may want to up your test to about 500mg per week. Taking in 250mg of extragenous test will improve your gains slightly, but in the end you may be disappointed with the results. Also taking the d-bol at the end of the cycle is just going to blow you up like a water balloon...not very good for cutting IMO...

 

[Skip]

In theory if you manipulate your diet, could you use any cycle to cut or mass up??

In theory AND in reality. The only thing you need to do is make sure you have control of any estrogen or progesterone kickback and get your water right. If you do these two things, you can cut with whatever you like - period.

Most guys go with less aromatizing agents for precontest so that they don't have to worry as much about finding the balance between the estro and anti-estros. I assure you, though, you could get just as ripped, dry and tight while taking dbol, anadrol, deca and test enanthate for a show. You just have to know your body better.

Skip

 

[PRAETORIAN]

Re: cycle -wannabebigok

Yes , true any cycle will work while dieting..as Skip says you need to know your body and be able to deal with any aromatization that may occur.
BiggerStronger "They" say that if you walk you burn more calories than running if you go the same distance without breaking down muscle.
This statement is almost funny..come on guys...walking burning more calories than running..the same distance..whew theres a good one! I think you misunderstood the study which said walking uses more fat as fuel than running which uses more glycogen stores..it had nothing to do with overall calories.
I would suggest reading a post on cardio here on the board...i think it was harvey..cant quite remember but it had some great info!
Peace,
P

 

[wannabebigok]

Thanks guys. For the record though I will be trying to mass up with this cycle. I put the d's at the end as per goldengears suggestion. That way as I taper off the omna I can use the last of my dbols and start post cycle after the last day of dbol. That way all AS are ending at about the same time.

 

[machine99]

Actually I believe drugs like winstrol, primobolan, trenbolone that are very anabolic (as opposed to androgenic) and bind very well the the androgen receptor are more efficient at burning fat then steroids that work through non-ar pathways (satelliate cells, igf-1 levels, etc)

 

[Skip]

Actually I believe drugs like winstrol, primobolan, trenbolone that are very anabolic (as opposed to androgenic) and bind very well the the androgen receptor are more efficient at burning fat then steroids that work through non-ar pathways (satelliate cells, igf-1 levels, etc)

Well, now you are bringing up a debate that could last forever - whether or not anabolics/androgenics have any thermogenic properties or not. I will leave this one alone for now as I don't have the time right now to debate my side of it.

Skip

 

[stumpy]

i believe that AAS do have lipolitic effects, thermogenic, maybe not, thermogenic would include an increase in body temperature. as for lypolisis, look at it in a logical sense of hormonal balances between males and females. Both male and female secrete many of the same horomones, at different levels. A typical woman produces more estrogen as compared to her lower testosterone levels. On the other hand men produce a much higher amount of testosterone. Now you look at the body composition of the opposing sexes. Men, theoretically carry less body fat as compared to women because of their higher levels of testosterone. So, in essence an individual could get lean while taking higher androgenic compounds, though the extracellular fluid retention would be more than taking highly anabolic compounds. While trying to get a lean look on potent androgens may seem difficult, it would be easily managed through diet and cardio.

 

[LA]

Actually I believe drugs like winstrol, primobolan, trenbolone that are very anabolic (as opposed to androgenic) and bind very well the the androgen receptor are more efficient at burning fat then steroids that work through non-ar pathways (satelliate cells, igf-1 levels, etc)

Well, now you are bringing up a debate that could last forever - whether or not anabolics/androgenics have any thermogenic properties or not. I will leave this one alone for now as I don't have the time right now to debate my side of it.

Skip

But I defy anyone to put on bodyfat while taking tren at 150mg/ed.

Whats a good way to put on mass while leaning out bf wise?

That's the search for the Holly Grail of Bodybuilding! Some people can do it but it is rare. There are just a ton of factors to have adjusted perfectly. Diet, macro relationships, macro timing, cardio, T3, AS, etc. Most of the time it comes down to either picking a bulking approach or a cutting approach. By focusing on one you are going to get the most out of that approach rather than less than satisfactory results of trying to do both.

Along those lines..my buddy says that slow cardio will burn more fat and ensure that muscle is not lost. What is the theory and suggestions behind this?

I prefer slow cardio (even if it is the most boring thing on the planet) over interval cardio. But that's just me. I'm an endo type. I think stating what bodytype you are is important when talking about the types of cardio and what works best for you. Also I used to do cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. Recently I switched to 1 scoop of whey 30 minutes prior to cardio. I follow this up with a protein/olive oil shake afterwards. I don't believe in spiking insulin if at all possible around cardio. Fat won't burn if insulin is present to any degree. And again, there are many theories on this too.

Bottom line- It's a life long experiment with your body. And guess what? Just as you think you have your body figured out it goes and changes on you! Good Luck- LA

 

[wannabebigok]

HOw should one gauge slow cardio? I men what is the ideal and max heartrate? How slow is slow???

 

[LA]

HOw should one gauge slow cardio? I men what is the ideal and max heartrate? How slow is slow???

Slow cardio for dummies- if you can sing you are going to slow. If you can't talk you are going too fast.

 

[footballcat]

i try to walk a mile every 13-15min

 

[PRAETORIAN]

Precontest bulking???

Sounds strange doesn't it..well it is a misnomer..should be called gaining lean body mass while on a below maintenance calorie diet. Now for some this may come as a shock but each and every time i diet or have put a client on a precontest type diet we have all increased our lean body mass. Now I know that many say it is impossible and that we should just be happy holding the muscle we have..but maybe its just luck i am not sure...just seems to go my way!
My method is to try to stay clean"off" a greater percentage of the time...and to keep intensity levels moderate during the off times! Now when u prepare for a contest the intensity ...like it or not...will increase dramatically. When this happens combined with a great aas cycle, thermo gens, higher protein and efa's, cardio...the body just seems to respond and utilize everything optimally! It was never a true goal of mine..i just happened on it by chance but now i strive for it each and every time! And i cannot take full credit in the genetic dept as my clients have experienced the same as well....the whole idea is to use yearly "cycling" not just in aas but in mental intensity as well. There is also what is known as the "slingshot " theory ..but thats is another topic!
Peace,
P

 

[superman1975]

i really like having skip around--LOL!

good posts guys

 

[Skip]

Re: Precontest bulking???

Now I know that many say it is impossible and that we should just be happy holding the muscle we have..P

I am not one of them. I agree with you and have the same results when I lean down. However, one of the most consistent variables that I have found EVERY time this has happened with me or with a client is that the leaning down period must be of a long enough period of time so that the balance of calories is such that both leaning down and increasing LBM can take place at the same time.

You MUST have everything so phuking precise for this to happen and not everyone knows their body well enough to pull this off.

Would a big, loud plug for TEAMSKIP be appropriate here? No?
Okay, then.

Skip
ADD: It is nice to be liked.

 

[PRAETORIAN]

Re: Skip -precontest bulking

Skip, I agree vehemently!
I would always suggest 16 weeks minimum in order to acheive the desired effect of LBM production while cutting..as well some AAS work better than others in this regard ie. anadrol 50, trenbolone acetate, testosterone suspension, winstrol depot all seem to work well ..the winstrol would have to be cycled with one of the other 3 to work well! Just what I have found that works!

ps. and to get the best results i have always incorporated a cheat day or AKA shitloading-uses the bodies natural hormones ...insulin , testosterone to achieve this!

Peace,
P