Buffalo
MuscleChemistry Member
Exigent circumstances
Cop turns into Cop killer
- Thread starter Presser
- Start date
Exigent circumstances
WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
I'm on the opposite spectrum...being that the LAPD falsely shot 2 people and have acted criminally in several ways in this case..if the laws of our Country are to be respected, first and foremost they need to be done so by law enforcement..
If this man was guilty then he needs to be punished accordingly...however I agree with the Innocent until proven guilty theory that is no longer followed in this Country and it is very dangerous IMO.
Also I find it ironic that they "tear gassed him" (non-lethal tactic) as a disguise, only to burn the house down...but reports are stating that "no one knows how the house caught fire, maybe a tear gas canister caught fire) tear gas canister's are non-flammable and I know this personally from my time in the Academy and being gassed several times.
Funny because if anyone remember the pharmacist that was shot at, and returned fire, hit one kid, chased the other out, returned and put two more bullets in the wounded kid on the ground and was given life in prison...If you are law enforcement it is ok??
saw this quote and although I didn't write it, I agree with it..
If the police can burn suspects alive, which is murder, then the law is reduced to nothing more than words on a page, and police officers are nothing more than thugs and criminals themselves. And if journalists, reporters and editors, don’t have the guts to go against their corporate ownership to investigate and report the truth, then our society is surely doomed.
If this man was guilty then he needs to be punished accordingly...however I agree with the Innocent until proven guilty theory that is no longer followed in this Country and it is very dangerous IMO.
Also I find it ironic that they "tear gassed him" (non-lethal tactic) as a disguise, only to burn the house down...but reports are stating that "no one knows how the house caught fire, maybe a tear gas canister caught fire) tear gas canister's are non-flammable and I know this personally from my time in the Academy and being gassed several times.
Funny because if anyone remember the pharmacist that was shot at, and returned fire, hit one kid, chased the other out, returned and put two more bullets in the wounded kid on the ground and was given life in prison...If you are law enforcement it is ok??
saw this quote and although I didn't write it, I agree with it..
If the police can burn suspects alive, which is murder, then the law is reduced to nothing more than words on a page, and police officers are nothing more than thugs and criminals themselves. And if journalists, reporters and editors, don’t have the guts to go against their corporate ownership to investigate and report the truth, then our society is surely doomed.
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The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
He shot at them Bro. He actively tried to kill them. I'm all for Revolt and anti Government shit, but come on. This guy wasn't sitting on his couch in his underwear watching television. He was actively involved in attempted murder on a LEO and had already killed what 3?! He has been identified by the Ofc that lived. What exactly were they supposed to do? Would you be cool with him having a shoot out with Police if he was your next door neighbor? Would you be cool with Police saying "ah well, he's pretty well buttoned up in there. Pack it in boys, maybe we'll catch him another time".
Seriously guys...
Buffalo
MuscleChemistry Member
Saying burn it down and doing it are two different things. Flash bangs, smoke grenades and concussion grenades were used and they do start fires. Now the people who scream "due justice" are hypocrites since what do justice is being given to them without zero proof of the blaze being started intentionally.
If they did start it then yes they should be held accountable. If the things in the manifesto are true then it needs to be investigated but because a government agent goes off the the reservation it automatically makes the accusations true? Come on that's bullshit. Due process was done, this guy had a hearing and was found to be guilty, there's your due process. So now because he screams conspiracy it must be not true? Fair enough, why not do what other people have done and start his own investigations like the other times a police department was accused of cover up?
No matter if it is proven that the blaze was started by ancillary explosives people will scream fear of the government. I don't trust a politician more than the next person but that doesn't mean you lose faith in it all just because something didn't go your way or you don't like something.
Me personally I would have put a slug in this guys skull. I guarantee you this guy shot himself from the reports I'm getting from back home.
If they did start it then yes they should be held accountable. If the things in the manifesto are true then it needs to be investigated but because a government agent goes off the the reservation it automatically makes the accusations true? Come on that's bullshit. Due process was done, this guy had a hearing and was found to be guilty, there's your due process. So now because he screams conspiracy it must be not true? Fair enough, why not do what other people have done and start his own investigations like the other times a police department was accused of cover up?
No matter if it is proven that the blaze was started by ancillary explosives people will scream fear of the government. I don't trust a politician more than the next person but that doesn't mean you lose faith in it all just because something didn't go your way or you don't like something.
Me personally I would have put a slug in this guys skull. I guarantee you this guy shot himself from the reports I'm getting from back home.
WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
Not at all, if they were being shot at, they had two options shoot back..(I'm sure they had a sniper) or non-lethal tear gas and send SWAT in as they always do...Tear gas being extremely effective, an extraction would have been realistic...
No one believes life in prison is justice, especially someone who murdered police, you knew and I knew they would "kill him accidentally"...but it doesn't make it right...
If they weren't trying to hide, then fuck it, and send a missle from the drone right on in...problem solved..but it had to be politically correct and covered up. Murder is murder IMO....We do it in war too..a "necessary evil" according to our leaders, but doesn't make it right...
WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
And as for anti-gov't...I wouldn't say I am anti-gov't..I fully support and love the people of the US, and when "the people" have say in Gov't I am all for it...
I do believe that our Gov't is seeking and obtaining more control and that their intentions are not favorable...
I am also a resigned former Gov't employee...so my eyes are open...and I did resign freely on my will because of my beliefs, not against my will..I just am not the type of person to go along with something, because someone else dreamed up that it should be done...Especially when those people have agenda's and flawed intentions behind their actions.
I do believe that our Gov't is seeking and obtaining more control and that their intentions are not favorable...
I am also a resigned former Gov't employee...so my eyes are open...and I did resign freely on my will because of my beliefs, not against my will..I just am not the type of person to go along with something, because someone else dreamed up that it should be done...Especially when those people have agenda's and flawed intentions behind their actions.
Buffalo
MuscleChemistry Member
Bro your doing the same thing you claim was being done to Droner. You make your accusation before any due justice is being done. There are thousands of convicted cop killers in prison so it's not justifiable to say that him being killed was inevitable. Like any action be it sports or police there will always be "they should have done this" and all of a sudden everyone is an expert in police work. I don't know anymore than you do other than shoot back I don't know what other method.
Why does he not deserve to be shot if he's shooting at them? He shot at two game wardens when he was spotted so do they not deserve to fire back? What throw tear gas at him or stun gun him? They deserve to go home just as much as Dorner deserved a trial if he was arrested.
The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Your point is valid and well thought out. I once believed what you are saying. I lost 2 close friends on Jan 24, 2011 because the agency choose to order a response exactly as you suggested. I don't expect you to know these things. My stomach hurts now and I'm teary eyed thinking about it.
Allow me to give you the real picture that the News never gets around to telling you.
A K9 Ofc responds to a Call for Assistance of a US Marshall serving a Warrant at a residence. The mans wife says he is not there, but allows them to come inside and search. The man is upstairs in the attic. The K9 Ofc looks into the attic and is shot twice in the face and then drug up to the attic. The US Marshall is also wounded. The mans wife gets out of the house to safety. Police respond and send in the SWAT team to try to apprehend the felon and extract the Ofc and Marshall. Bullets are flying everywhere from somewhere in the attic. Rounds are hitting cars in the street as well as rounds being fired through the attic into the floor. Enter flash bang grenades, OC gas, etc, 5 brave Ofc's enter the house knowing full well that they will not likely get out alive. The Marshall is located and extracted. While trying to get the K9 Officer out a Sgt holding a ballistic shield takes a round to the Carotid artery and bleeds out in less than 2 minutes. The other Ofc manages to yank the corpse of his friend from the attic which this psycho tied to a support beam to lure other Officers inside.
After hours of gunfire and 2 Officers dead what would you have suggested at this point?
Two of my friends died. Should we risk more since he hasn't had his day in court? Should we walk away? The exchange of gunfire has lasted 6 hours at this point. 2 men dead...
Tell me what is right??
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WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
Buffalo you are right, if they were being shot at, by all means, I agree 
It's just the shady way it has gone down, or at least the shady way the media reports it..one of the two...You are right, and I didn't stop to even consider most importantly we probably don't even know what truly happened...It could have been a million other scenarios that weren't reported...But the media for sure reported in the versions I saw that, they tear gassed the guy (making it appear they were using non-lethal tactics), but then a "fire" started, a mystery gunshot is heard and the building just so happens to burn down so quickly, they can't stop it.. It reads out very suspicious...but you and Dude have great points, if he was actively shooting at them then what happens happens...As far as the drone and missile, I was just being cynical that we were using one, which I don't agree with using against our own people, thats a whole other story LOL
Dude, I am so sorry to hear about your friends, that is a sickening story altogether and just horrible. And it hits even harder home when it has happened to you or a very close friend, very very sorry for you and your friends
I think this is why we stopped politics for awhile on MC, it got people pissed at one another, but please understand I appreciate and respect all you guys, even everyone who has the opposite opinion or differs from me, bc u guys have amazing view points...truly do
Ultimately, I am now at the point in life where I find it very sad that people treat one another the way they do...Maybe since I became a parent and I see life as even more valuable, and I see adults as grown up children, someones son or daughter, even the ones who annoy me and give gym advice (LOL). I personally just wish we could have peace between one another, we wouldn't need cops, swat, military, missles, violence. I feel like we are all here for a greater purpose and the lies, the wars, the fighting, all of it, though "necessary" will never make us better people. I remember seeing US soldiers beating young foreign teens throwing rocks at them..and when I did not approve, everyone got pissed off at me, and said "they needed to learn a lesson"...(which very well may be true) but in my eyes it was a sad day to see grown men beating and punching teenage boys and enjoying it...It isn't meant to be this way.
Unfortunately this is the World we live in today, and one of the most scary things is raising a child in this environment...and I worry for the people of our Country, because I see us headed down a worsening road.
It's just the shady way it has gone down, or at least the shady way the media reports it..one of the two...You are right, and I didn't stop to even consider most importantly we probably don't even know what truly happened...It could have been a million other scenarios that weren't reported...But the media for sure reported in the versions I saw that, they tear gassed the guy (making it appear they were using non-lethal tactics), but then a "fire" started, a mystery gunshot is heard and the building just so happens to burn down so quickly, they can't stop it.. It reads out very suspicious...but you and Dude have great points, if he was actively shooting at them then what happens happens...As far as the drone and missile, I was just being cynical that we were using one, which I don't agree with using against our own people, thats a whole other story LOLDude, I am so sorry to hear about your friends, that is a sickening story altogether and just horrible. And it hits even harder home when it has happened to you or a very close friend, very very sorry for you and your friends
I think this is why we stopped politics for awhile on MC, it got people pissed at one another, but please understand I appreciate and respect all you guys, even everyone who has the opposite opinion or differs from me, bc u guys have amazing view points...truly do
Ultimately, I am now at the point in life where I find it very sad that people treat one another the way they do...Maybe since I became a parent and I see life as even more valuable, and I see adults as grown up children, someones son or daughter, even the ones who annoy me and give gym advice (LOL). I personally just wish we could have peace between one another, we wouldn't need cops, swat, military, missles, violence. I feel like we are all here for a greater purpose and the lies, the wars, the fighting, all of it, though "necessary" will never make us better people. I remember seeing US soldiers beating young foreign teens throwing rocks at them..and when I did not approve, everyone got pissed off at me, and said "they needed to learn a lesson"...(which very well may be true) but in my eyes it was a sad day to see grown men beating and punching teenage boys and enjoying it...It isn't meant to be this way.
Unfortunately this is the World we live in today, and one of the most scary things is raising a child in this environment...and I worry for the people of our Country, because I see us headed down a worsening road.
The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Bro you didn't upset me. Quite the contrary, I respect the people here on MC. Everyone I have spoken to is intelligent and gives a different perspective based on the information they are provided. It helps me understand other people's point of view.
The greatest thing about the people's opinions on here is that they have REASONING behind their opinions. I can work with that. It's the people that are so eager to shout out their opinion with no reason or rational behind it that bother me.
No harm here Bro. This is a perfect example. What is the truth? The Police will never release it and the media will present what little they are told and fill in the rest with whatever makes the story sensational
The greatest thing about the people's opinions on here is that they have REASONING behind their opinions. I can work with that. It's the people that are so eager to shout out their opinion with no reason or rational behind it that bother me.
No harm here Bro. This is a perfect example. What is the truth? The Police will never release it and the media will present what little they are told and fill in the rest with whatever makes the story sensational
Deadly force justified, but you discredit your own opinion with this sentence. They did destroy private property in order to kill him. The police out there also shot two asian women and destroyed their truck because it looked like his. IMO the police were out of control in trying to contain him. They found they guy through good police work, just like the police found the kidnapper in Alabama that barricaded himself in his bunker. The police in Alabama took the right course of action, not the police in California. They didnt wait him out, they didnt try to negotiate a surrender. They decided to burn someone else's house down and kill him in the process.
Buffalo
MuscleChemistry Member
I don't think there is ever a need to stop having politic talk. We are human and we all have great opinions (even though mine are always right lol....jk) but we are a small group of guys who have the same issues and like talking it out. There has never been name calling or personal attacks and sometimes we push it we respect each other.
The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
On the first point I can't disagree. That is totally unacceptable. As to whether they negotiated or not, I do not know, but I find it difficult to believe that the upper staff knowingly through that option out the window. However I don't know.
That whole situation is out of control from start to finish. He declared open season on all LE and their families. Right or wrong LE wanted him dead. As would I.
Given your points I have no valid argument. Unfortunately I can't say that I would have done things differently. Some things are just too much for people.
I'm 100% sure that the owners of the house will be made 110% whole. And I'm 100% sure that the family that was the target of the Home Invasion was happy to see him burn.
You are totally wrong about this, its a small percentage that are involved in criminal behavior. The Job is tough dealing with peoples problems, they hardly make enough, a mere 100k for bullshit they have to deal with. For you to make a blanket statement like that is completely wrong.
SilkQuads
New member
100k? You're very generous. More like 50's. but I like your thinking.
WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
I would say only a small percentage are "caught" that are involved in criminal behavior...
Psychologically we can see that Type A personalities tend to draw in police officers. Confidence, aggression, impulsivity, risk taking behaviors (even in order to save others lives) and a host of other behaviors that are common in police officers are common in criminal behaviors according to criminologists. Then you tie in means, motive and opportunity. Police are often forced to be in positions where they have the means and opportunity. This is not to say that there are not excellent Officers, because there are amazing one's with many good qualities.
Criminal behavior can be something as simple as lying in order to obtain a statement from someone, planting evidence, breaking laws in order for the good of society aka the Dirty Harry syndrome, using excessive force, entrapment, among others.
The job is extremely difficult from what I understand. I know it is high stress, dangerous, causes marital problems and suicide, and to top it off, alot of people dislike Police, that must be frustrating especially if you are one of the good ones.
It is possible I worded what I mean to say wrong..but in no way do I believe that making any statement opinion or not by anyone here is wrong. We are all adults and we all have opinions...whether you agree or not, that is up to you, and I appreciate your reply. However, I'm personally curious why you think my blanket statement is 'wrong" what happened to freedom of speech?
This forum more then ever lately has a huge emphasis on protecting LE, so my intuition tells me that there are our fair share of people here from LE...Which is fine, a ton of LE uses AAS, and they have always been into weight-training, and on lifting forums, am I allowed to say that? :lurk:
The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
My brother is LE. Some of my best friends are LE. Some of my best friends want to be LE. The person I dislike most in this world is LE.
WesleyInman
National Strongman Competitor
I have several very good friends who are LE, I also have family who used to be LE, and I have dated 2 women in the last 3 years who were LE (we didn't have so much in common except sex)...not one of them considered my past AAS use a "criminal action", and that is why I get along with them. However with that being said and done, I don't always agree with their views on things, so be it, alot of people who aren't LE don't agree with mine...
I have nothing against anyone here who is...I actually respect LE..most of them... Many of them workout at my gym...There are those who go to the gym and forums to investigate, to those who do, I feel they are wasting tax payer dollars and an insult to the one's who actually "protect and serve". I don't care what anyone says, or what some BS law in a book says, AAS use is not and should not be considered a crime.
The Dude
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
I agree 100%
The thing is LE is just like everyone else, struggling to make it in this world. They are no different. Some have this huge complex but deep down they struggle also. I mean the meager 100k for that job is really nothing compared to the BS involved. I mean the criminal element is in every profession. The profession has been subjected to undue criticism and rightfully so. I mean most LE are asshole's and portray themselves that they are above the law. They arrest drunk drivers then go and drink and drive themselves. Does this make them a criminal? I don't think so. I mean evil hides everywhere. One place evil hides the most is right in the church. As I grow older I just see everyone trying to make it in this United States of America as we move from a democratic society to one of socialism.
