Diabetes and Bodybuilding

[Justinkase85]

I need help BIG TIME.

I am 28, prior service combat communications technician in USAF. SERE trained as well.

That was several years ago though. When I wasn't diabetic and this disease didn't destroy my body.

I went from being insanely cut and ripped and built to nothing in the span of a year and my legs are severely weak. I'm tired of being sick and weak. I didn't fight in war to be weak now and I'll be damned if I lay down and take it!

Now I know I need calories to build muscle however carbs are insanely toxic to me so I utilize a diet that is called MCT Ketogenic.

It is a Low Carb - Moderate Protein - High Fat diet that utilizes oils that are dense with MCT (Medium Chain Triglycerides) with a low carb count to force your body to seek energy elsewhere namely from your proteins and fats that you ingest.

The overall idea of this diet is to force your body to utilize fats more. It won't take from your muscle because you take in a moderate percentage of protein. So your percentages may look like this:

10% - 35% - 55%
Carb Protein Fat

This keeps my blood sugar stable BUT I don't have anywhere NEAR the amount of calories that is required to start building again.

This is my conundrum:

The more I eat the more insulin I have to take.
The more insulin I have to take the faster it runs out.
The faster it runs out the faster I get to go to the hospital.

The more I eat of carbs, the more unstable my glucose levels become.
Resulting in insane bouncebacks from hypoglycemic levels to hyperglycemic levels.
Inducing Cortisol production and ketone production and disables insulin.

So without carbohydrates I know this bodybuilding thing is VERY DIFFICULT.

But with them...my body goes off the charts glucose level wise.

So how does a brittle diabetic like me...get his body back?

Any help at all is appreciated!

 

[mcgaret]

thats a tough one. Hopefully we can come up with some ideas that will at least help a little. I took a health
class that taught about diabetes but it was still confusing to me for some reason. A slow releasing insulin and
small doses of carbs thru the day???? How did you get the diabetes (if you dont mind me asking)

 

[Justinkase85]

thats a tough one. Hopefully we can come up with some ideas that will at least help a little. I took a health
class that taught about diabetes but it was still confusing to me for some reason. A slow releasing insulin and
small doses of carbs thru the day???? How did you get the diabetes (if you dont mind me asking)

Doctors have NO idea but I think I might have some idea (unofficially of course)

I ate a lot of carbs and a lot of fats and a lot of proteins. I had absolutely no idea how this impacted my body until I became diabetic. When I saw that first 500 mg/dl reading (which is VERY FREAKIN HIGH simply put that is the equivalent of 25,000g of glucose in your 5L of blood which is essentially 5 times the amount of a normal human being) I understood that something was stressing out my body and it had to have been the carbs because fats didn't do it neither did proteins.

So the carbohydrates must have been the culprit and sure enough my carbohydrate counting proved that it was a big increaser of glucose levels which is great you know...if you can handle them. I also find the more gluten I cut out the more stable my glucose levels are.

But that isn't anywhere near what I need to have to build my body back to as strong as it used to be you know? I need those carbs to support my activity.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

I think I can help you. Insulin is a personal interest of mine and I've spent lots of time researching it. But it may take a couple posts.

So first off, are you type 1 or type 2? It sounds like you are type 2, because of the 500ng reading you got (if you were type 1, your pancreas wouldn't have been producing insulin). But the term brittle diabetic is usually referring to type 1, so I'm a little confused.

Also, what treatment plans did your doctors try? Did they try metformin (glucophage) or berberine hcl (otc but potent)?

And also to not end this on a downer, you can get very big and strong on low carbs. You just have to eat high calories (easy to do so with fats) and time your carbs pre, during and post workout.

 

[Justinkase85]

I think I can help you. Insulin is a personal interest of mine and I've spent lots of time researching it. But it may take a couple posts.

That's cool, you'll find that I'm a student at heart so I can take the information

So first off, are you type 1 or type 2? It sounds like you are type 2, because of the 500ng reading you got (if you were type 1, your pancreas wouldn't have been producing insulin). But the term brittle diabetic is usually referring to type 1, so I'm a little confused.

I'm type 1 and 2. I have the potential to be severely insulin resistant without the ability to produce my own insulin as well. At the beginning of it I was still producing, then I was kinda producing...then barely...then not at all.

Also, what treatment plans did your doctors try? Did they try metformin (glucophage) or berberine hcl (otc but potent)?

I am on novolog, levemir, metformin HCL and I voluntarily take Fenugreek 600mg which is like an herbal metformin

And also to not end this on a downer, you can get very big and strong on low carbs. You just have to eat high calories (easy to do so with fats) and time your carbs pre, during and post workout.

that's great to hear. I worked out consistently last year before the diabetic amyotrophy set in and weakened my legs. I saw absolutely NO gains in muscle mass. Actually...I was losing all muscular build that I had.

Still recovering from the Amyotrophy and it is hard to get around. I figure if I can walk then I can do something, however. Meaning if I have to start at square one that is what I'm going to do. Hell if I got to start at square negative 50 that is what I'll do.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

How much do you weigh?

And I figured that you might be both type 1 and type 2.

 

[Justinkase85]

205lbs, I am 5' 10''

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

205lbs, I am 5' 10''

That's not that bad depending on bodyfat. So the good thing is that since you are low carbing it permanently you shouldn't ever not be lean. But the bad thing is that you are going to have to consume tons of fat to keep calories high. The only way to grow is with lots of calories.

 

[BigZ]

205lbs, I am 5' 10''

Both type 1 and type 2, eh? I can imagine that's hard to deal with. 205 is not bad, but I'm supposing you must have been heavier before, so it must feel like you went to nothing, and I know what that feels like. I'm interested in insulin myself because I'm hypoglycemic, and I'll probably become type 1 later on. I've used insulin experimentally via a doctor (sort of an "off-label" use) to try to control my own production which gets spiked from just about anything, not just carbs. Seems to work, but it means I voluntarily become a type 1 diabetic in a way. So I'm always trying to eat cleanly without too much obsessing over it.

I'm curious to know if you have used testosterone at all.. which you don't have to answer, but you should know (or already know) that using testosterone (or any steroid for that matter) could help in your situation. Testosterone or test for short can change glucose levels in the body, which is the reason when you go on hormone replacement, docs want to know if you're diabetic or not. Increased test causes more glucose/nutrient uptake in cells and thus helps to lower glucose levels. And because one of its purposes is to build muscle, it can help you strengthen and build muscle in the case of diabetic amyotrophy. In your case, I would be surprised if you weren't using since it would at least stop any muscle wasting, which is a valid medical use.

 

[Justinkase85]

Yeah I'm going for lean muscle mass, not bulky. I want to be strong and lean but not bulky olympic body builder. Low carbing keeps my glucose levels stable which is a must for working out because if I work out at a high level that means my body will break down muscle to feed itself during workout and that will be counter productive.

I just want to be healthy again...that's all.

 

[Justinkase85]

Both type 1 and type 2, eh? I can imagine that's hard to deal with. 205 is not bad, but I'm supposing you must have been heavier before, so it must feel like you went to nothing, and I know what that feels like.

Before the diabetic amyotrophy and before my divorce I was 350 pounds. I started P90X and after a full year of it I dropped to 175 but I started to notice that while I dropped weight, I wasn't gaining muscle mass or a lean muscle build.

I looked good, but not in the sense that "you don't want to mess with me" good.

I'm interested in insulin myself because I'm hypoglycemic, and I'll probably become type 1 later on. I've used insulin experimentally via a doctor (sort of an "off-label" use) to try to control my own production which gets spiked from just about anything, not just carbs. Seems to work, but it means I voluntarily become a type 1 diabetic in a way. So I'm always trying to eat cleanly without too much obsessing over it.

hypoglycemic levels are a result of hyper production of insulin due to enhanced insulin resistance. If you could synthesize your own insulin you wouldn't have to worry about getting as bad as I am. Metformin could help you out tremendously as it helps lower insulin resistance, so does berberine. I also take Fenugreek which seems to help stabilize my glucose levels like Metformin and it doesn't have a counterindication on the Metformin. Perhaps ask your doc about it? Maybe you can prevent becoming a type 1 if you put the nails in its coffin right now.

I'm curious to know if you have used testosterone at all.. which you don't have to answer, but you should know (or already know) that using testosterone (or any steroid for that matter) could help in your situation. Testosterone or test for short can change glucose levels in the body, which is the reason when you go on hormone replacement, docs want to know if you're diabetic or not. Increased test causes more glucose/nutrient uptake in cells and thus helps to lower glucose levels. And because one of its purposes is to build muscle, it can help you strengthen and build muscle in the case of diabetic amyotrophy. In your case, I would be surprised if you weren't using since it would at least stop any muscle wasting, which is a valid medical use.

Wow I had no idea that Testosterone could do that! No, I'm not on it but I haven't had a T-test to confirm my testosterone production levels. Perhaps I can try out Test supps to see if I can improve my situation any and I know my friend is on test supps for his body building and swears by it. I might have to give it a go to see if I improve my overall muscle situation. I have suffered atrophy in my legs due to the amyotrophy basically making me bed ridden at times.

 

[BigZ]

I've been thinking about the metformin or fenugreek and looking into it. Might be the right thing as you suggest. I'll ask my doc about it. Thanks, bro!

 

[BigZ]

Wow I had no idea that Testosterone could do that! No, I'm not on it but I haven't had a T-test to confirm my testosterone production levels. Perhaps I can try out Test supps to see if I can improve my situation any and I know my friend is on test supps for his body building and swears by it. I might have to give it a go to see if I improve my overall muscle situation. I have suffered atrophy in my legs due to the amyotrophy basically making me bed ridden at times.

I would suspect that you might have a low test level given your condition. It would certainly be a good thing to get it tested.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

BigZ beat me to it. I was going to ask if you have had your testosterone levels checked. That could be the whole problem. Also, what do you estimate your bodyfat to be?

 

[The Dude]

Remember that when we compete we drop a lot of carbs. I don't think this is too terribly complicated. 4 calories per gram of carbs and 9 per gram of fat. Since you don't have the benefit of carbs, up the protein a little. Save your carbs for post workout. Figure probably 4000 calories?! Gluconeogenesis isn't all that efficient so you may need a bit more. Your body can and will transition to using fat for fuel after a short time.
1. Get your test levels checked.
2. Go grocery shopping and stock up on chicken, beef, pork, etc. Don't be shy with sausages, eggs, and things like that. Also get some low glycemic index veggies, olive oil and some flax seed oil, avocado, stuff like that.
3. Get a piece of paper and a calculator out. Start adding up calories as you make your meal choices. At least 4 meals a day to keep your levels steady.
Then just get in the gym and keep a daily log of everything including your meals, glucose readings, and how you feel. You'll stumble onto a combo that works in no time and you'll probably not need insulin after a while. Stay positive and motivated. You can accomplish crazy things with a positive mindset Brother

 

[Justinkase85]

BigZ beat me to it. I was going to ask if you have had your testosterone levels checked. That could be the whole problem. Also, what do you estimate your bodyfat to be?

My exact body percentage is 25.8% on the dot.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember that when we compete we drop a lot of carbs. I don't think this is too terribly complicated. 4 calories per gram of carbs and 9 per gram of fat. Since you don't have the benefit of carbs, up the protein a little. Save your carbs for post workout. Figure probably 4000 calories?! Gluconeogenesis isn't all that efficient so you may need a bit more. Your body can and will transition to using fat for fuel after a short time.
1. Get your test levels checked.
2. Go grocery shopping and stock up on chicken, beef, pork, etc. Don't be shy with sausages, eggs, and things like that. Also get some low glycemic index veggies, olive oil and some flax seed oil, avocado, stuff like that.
3. Get a piece of paper and a calculator out. Start adding up calories as you make your meal choices. At least 4 meals a day to keep your levels steady.
Then just get in the gym and keep a daily log of everything including your meals, glucose readings, and how you feel. You'll stumble onto a combo that works in no time and you'll probably not need insulin after a while. Stay positive and motivated. You can accomplish crazy things with a positive mindset Brother

Wow thanks man! I definitely am going to give this a shot and you pinned my diet down man lol That is roughly all I eat and I have a new found love for KALE. I can make so much with kale. I generally add it to my egg white omelettes

 

[mcgaret]

Great informative post. We joke around a lot but there is a lot of great information among us and we are willing
to help and share. This is why Musclechemistry is so good. (I dont have diabetes but learning useful info also)
Justin, keep us posted how it goes and your progress.

 

[Justinkase85]

I've been thinking about the metformin or fenugreek and looking into it. Might be the right thing as you suggest. I'll ask my doc about it. Thanks, bro!

Yeah man no problem! Anything I can do to prevent you from getting to where I'm at. If it can be prevented (and it can be) I want it to be. No one deserves this.

- - - Updated - - -

Great informative post. We joke around a lot but there is a lot of great information among us and we are willing
to help and share. This is why Musclechemistry is so good. (I dont have diabetes but learning useful info also)
Justin, keep us posted how it goes and your progress.

I actually have a post that is going to be insanely informative about the diabetes issue. It actually has to be in two parts lol The disease itself and then the diet.

It is 20...pages...long....

I don't know...that is the shortened version and I don't even know where to post it here.

 

[fstr03svtcobra]

Remember that when we compete we drop a lot of carbs. I don't think this is too terribly complicated. 4 calories per gram of carbs and 9 per gram of fat. Since you don't have the benefit of carbs, up the protein a little. Save your carbs for post workout. Figure probably 4000 calories?! Gluconeogenesis isn't all that efficient so you may need a bit more. Your body can and will transition to using fat for fuel after a short time.
1. Get your test levels checked.
2. Go grocery shopping and stock up on chicken, beef, pork, etc. Don't be shy with sausages, eggs, and things like that. Also get some low glycemic index veggies, olive oil and some flax seed oil, avocado, stuff like that.
3. Get a piece of paper and a calculator out. Start adding up calories as you make your meal choices. At least 4 meals a day to keep your levels steady.
Then just get in the gym and keep a daily log of everything including your meals, glucose readings, and how you feel. You'll stumble onto a combo that works in no time and you'll probably not need insulin after a while. Stay positive and motivated. You can accomplish crazy things with a positive mindset Brother

Yeah this is absolutely perfect advise. Get scientific about things and that way you can dial your body in.

 

[Kkoz]

I need help BIG TIME.


I am 28, prior service combat communications technician in USAF. SERE trained as well.


That was several years ago though. When I wasn't diabetic and this disease didn't destroy my body.


I went from being insanely cut and ripped and built to nothing in the span of a year and my legs are severely weak. I'm tired of being sick and weak. I didn't fight in war to be weak now and I'll be damned if I lay down and take it!


Now I know I need calories to build muscle however carbs are insanely toxic to me so I utilize a diet that is called MCT Ketogenic.


It is a Low Carb - Moderate Protein - High Fat diet that utilizes oils that are dense with MCT (Medium Chain Triglycerides) with a low carb count to force your body to seek energy elsewhere namely from your proteins and fats that you ingest.


The overall idea of this diet is to force your body to utilize fats more. It won't take from your muscle because you take in a moderate percentage of protein. So your percentages may look like this:


10% - 35% - 55%
Carb Protein Fat


This keeps my blood sugar stable BUT I don't have anywhere NEAR the amount of calories that is required to start building again.


This is my conundrum:


The more I eat the more insulin I have to take.
The more insulin I have to take the faster it runs out.
The faster it runs out the faster I get to go to the hospital.


The more I eat of carbs, the more unstable my glucose levels become.
Resulting in insane bouncebacks from hypoglycemic levels to hyperglycemic levels.
Inducing Cortisol production and ketone production and disables insulin.


So without carbohydrates I know this bodybuilding thing is VERY DIFFICULT.


But with them...my body goes off the charts glucose level wise.


So how does a brittle diabetic like me...get his body back?


Any help at all is appreciated!

I am in the same exact place you are. I was a diagnosed as a diabetic five years ago at 20. My BGL was 800mg/dl (coma status). I have seen doctors and tried tons of meds ranging from: metforming, gylbryde, jeunvia, lantus, humolog. Not to add the cholorestrol and hypertension meds that accompany. I have been on diet, after diet to control my bgl until I found a doctor in AZ. Right now I am eating almost the same way you described. 10% carbs 35% protein, and 55% fat. The only difference is that I do not consume any starchy carbs. No oatmeal, sweet potatoes, ect. I get all of my carbs from veggies and trace carbs from peanut butter, almonds, and so on. On average I eat 35-60 grams of carbs a day depending on how much PB I eat. This has helped me in controlling my bgl, on average my morning fasting bgl is 100mg/dl. ( we as diabetic, when we sleep, we release more glycogen then a normal person with a proper working pancreas). I no longer feel tired after I eat and I have no drops in my bgl and no use for fast carbs ie: glucose tabs. And to point out free form l-glutamine in 15-20g raises your bgl faster then glucose. If you don't believe me, google it (schoolar google). There are numerous journal articles that prove this.


Now that being said my doctor and I have been utilizing IF once a week to stress the body to use fat as fuel compared to carbs. Durning a IF day I eat in a 6 hour window and only eat 1/4 the normal calories I would eat in a normal day. So, if I eat let's say, 4000 kcal a day on my IF day I would eat 1000kcals no more. With the combination of eating no starchy carbs and using IF once a week my blood work, bgl, energy levels and gains have become normal.


I also want want to state that I have not taken any diabetic medications ie: metformin, humolog, lantus for two years and my bgl is better now, then when I was using the insulin and oral meds.


I hope this helps and if you want more information on what I have gone thew PM me. I know what you are going thur it sucks and is so DAMN frustration dealing with the ups and down using insulin.