During Bulking...Adding size AND dropping Fat..

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The Deuce

MuscleChemistry Regitered Member
How many of you have been able to ADD Muscle Mass and SIZE while also cutting FAT at the same time (obviously while on cycle).. I don't want to do a cutter.. that's not the plan.. but I am trying to implement a way to drop bodyfat (maybe by cardio sessions - more than what I have been doing.. I.E= Morning cardio:cardio:) ... IF by doing this do you think it's possible to still add MUSCLE MASS without changing my diet??

Or do you think the key will lie in a diet reorganization.. I mean I am not complaining.. I am adding Muscle Mass.. I am up 9.5 lbs in slightly over 3.5 wks.. BUT my Bodyfat percentage has jumped too... so where I have gained this weight.. it's probably a ratio of half and half.. but my diet is relatively CLEAN as always.. just A LOT of cals... 4900 to be exact.. 2000 from pro/2000 from Carb/900 from Fat (good fats though)...

Basically what I am asking is.. SHOULD I IMPLEMENT THE MORNING CARDIO:cardio: and if SO how many times per week/length/HR.. ??? Will it in anyway HINDER any muscle gain? Because Usually I compensate the cardio during bulking by adding more food..

Or should I do a TOTAL RE-WORK on my diet..



Oh a little background. I train HEAVY:bench:.. 4 days per week one week.. 5 days per week the next. This is the training program I have found works the best for me, and has been producing solid muscle gains.. but ever since I switched up my diet to harder BULKER.. I have hit a LARGER FAT JUMP *Noticing it in my stomach and a little in my chest.. Love handles have stayed the same* But, All muscles are still dense and hard, Veins are still there... and STRENGTH. Ha, I am the strongest I have EVER been..

So I am just confused on what to do... is it cardio related:cardio:?? Or is it diet?? Or is it both??

Opinions would be GREATLY APPRECIATED PLEASE and THANK YOU !!:D
 
I haven't done it. I don't have the time or resources. If your diet is spot on I think morning cardio before eating at a slower pace (I'll do 3.2mph) for 30 minutes 4 days a week would be a good way to gauge it. I would also obviously take clen or ECA before the session. I am different though. Bodyfat falls off of me just from doing that cardio and switching to a tilapia, brown rice, and fish oils and olive oils. I'll eat 3lbs of fish a day and still lose trmendous amounts of bodyfat. Gaining is very hard for me and I can do no cardio if I want to gain.
 
it defintely possible. most of it lies in your diet. youre eating too many calories.
 
Yah, I did some recalculations.. waaay too many calories.. re-worked my diet.. I THOUGHT I WAS EATING 4900...

Bro's.. it was 6900 cals !!!

Here's what my DIET was !!

Meal 1 : 10 whole eggs, 1.5 cups Oats, 4oz. London broil steak w/ Olive Oil ( 2 tbsps as dressing.

Meal 2: 12 oz Chicken Breast, 1 cup brown rice, 3 cups Broccoli

Meal 3: 2 cans Tuna, 2 tbsps of Olive Oil, 6 Whole Asparagus, 2 california Carrots, 1 slice stoneground natural wheat bread

Meal 4: 8oz Ground Turkey (93/7) + 4oz Ground Turkey Leanest kind (1g of Fat per servimg) + 1/2 cup WHITE RICE

Training

Meal 5: Protein shake to hold me oveer until I get home (Dymatize 12 hrElite) 3 scoops in water

Meal 6: 12 oz Chicken Breast 1cup white Rice + 1/2 cup brown rice + avocado + fresh whole green beans

Meal 7: 8oz London Broil Steak + 16oz of skim milk + and 2 slices of Stoneground Wheat Bread (either 2 tbsps of Almond Butter or "Naturally More Peanut Butter")

Yah, so time to umm yah.. lol.. figure out a newer approach at this madness.. I got all the time in the world.. It's not like my FAT CONTENT jumped dramatically.. just a couple percentage points.. I'll gain it back..

I decided to take the day off from training today and hit a 45 min cardio session...

Tomorrow I will resume in the AM with YET another 45 min cardio session.. and then HIT training of the LEGS in the PM.. and maybe just maybe do another 30 minutes.. ( do this until I am back down to where I NEED to be).. and keep MY DIET in the proper range for building MUSCLE not gaining FAT !!
 
Yah, I did some recalculations.. waaay too many calories.. re-worked my diet.. I THOUGHT I WAS EATING 4900...

Bro's.. it was 6900 cals !!!

Here's what my DIET was !!

Meal 1 : 10 whole eggs, 1.5 cups Oats, 4oz. London broil steak w/ Olive Oil ( 2 tbsps as dressing.

Meal 2: 12 oz Chicken Breast, 1 cup brown rice, 3 cups Broccoli

Meal 3: 2 cans Tuna, 2 tbsps of Olive Oil, 6 Whole Asparagus, 2 california Carrots, 1 slice stoneground natural wheat bread

Meal 4: 8oz Ground Turkey (93/7) + 4oz Ground Turkey Leanest kind (1g of Fat per servimg) + 1/2 cup WHITE RICE

Training

Meal 5: Protein shake to hold me oveer until I get home (Dymatize 12 hrElite) 3 scoops in water

Meal 6: 12 oz Chicken Breast 1cup white Rice + 1/2 cup brown rice + avocado + fresh whole green beans

Meal 7: 8oz London Broil Steak + 16oz of skim milk + and 2 slices of Stoneground Wheat Bread (either 2 tbsps of Almond Butter or "Naturally More Peanut Butter")

Yah, so time to umm yah.. lol.. figure out a newer approach at this madness.. I got all the time in the world.. It's not like my FAT CONTENT jumped dramatically.. just a couple percentage points.. I'll gain it back..

I decided to take the day off from training today and hit a 45 min cardio session...

Tomorrow I will resume in the AM with YET another 45 min cardio session.. and then HIT training of the LEGS in the PM.. and maybe just maybe do another 30 minutes.. ( do this until I am back down to where I NEED to be).. and keep MY DIET in the proper range for building MUSCLE not gaining FAT !!
Ha dont you hate that now you gotta redo the whole damn thing. Solid ass bulking diet though thats alot of damn food man props for being able to choke it all down.
use the cardio and tweak the diet week by week. Its going to probably be a never ending process on the diet since you will need to continually change it up. I do anyways. Ive dropped about 2.5% bodyfat so far on this cycle and have only lost 3 pounds. Im trying to do similar to you not lose weight or possibly gain weight and slowly melt the excess fat away. Its working but i have to say it is a rather slow process. Good luck man and keep us posted on it.

Oh and post training cardio isnt the devil alot of people make it out to be either. Get your BCaa's during before and after your workout and get your shake with your carbs post workout and you wont be burning muscle. After workout I usually hit 30 minutes at 2.5mph an 8.0 incline. Burns approx 300 cals' per session so not bad and its very easy and my heartrate never goes above 120 so i know im not sacrificing a bunch of muscle.
My theory on it which could be totally off course. I have heard other people back this with papers but would have to look for them online. When you get done working out your GH release is high for at least 20 minutes PWO so i continue to sip on my bcaa's and do my 30 minutes of cardio and dont have my shake with carbs until 20 minutes after my last rep. Give my GH release a chance to burn more fat, because as we know once you spike that insulin that is probably for the most part over. I think that plenty of bcaa's and protein coupled with very low intensity cardio post workout is very effective has been for me anyways. good luck.
 
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Ha dont you hate that now you gotta redo the whole damn thing. Solid ass bulking diet though thats alot of damn food man props for being able to choke it all down.
use the cardio and tweak the diet week by week. Its going to probably be a never ending process on the diet since you will need to continually change it up. I do anyways. Ive dropped about 2.5% bodyfat so far on this cycle and have only lost 3 pounds. Im trying to do similar to you not lose weight or possibly gain weight and slowly melt the excess fat away. Its working but i have to say it is a rather slow process. Good luck man and keep us posted on it.

Oh and post training cardio isnt the devil alot of people make it out to be either. Get your BCaa's during before and after your workout and get your shake with your carbs post workout and you wont be burning muscle. After workout I usually hit 30 minutes at 2.5mph an 8.0 incline. Burns approx 300 cals' per session so not bad and its very easy and my heartrate never goes above 120 so i know im not sacrificing a bunch of muscle.
My theory on it which could be totally off course. I have heard other people back this with papers but would have to look for them online. When you get done working out your GH release is high for at least 20 minutes PWO so i continue to sip on my bcaa's and do my 30 minutes of cardio and dont have my shake with carbs until 20 minutes after my last rep. Give my GH release a chance to burn more fat, because as we know once you spike that insulin that is probably for the most part over. I think that plenty of bcaa's and protein coupled with very low intensity cardio post workout is very effective has been for me anyways. good luck.

This is very very interesting GS.. So, from what I derived from this.. I can now manipulate my diet.. as best I can.. start playing around with it if you will..

The downside.. I might have to discontinue the 19-nor I am running because be it as it may I will not run a cycle containing a 19-nor without the aid of cabergoline.. and I don't have enough to continue.. which pisses me off..

Anyways, neither here nor there. I think I am going to abandon the PWO Shake. Keep the BCAA's .. and instead think of something different..

But, ok.. so now I look at the possibility of the 20 minute window of continued GH release. With this being said..

What if I were to do a morning cardio routine.. (I like the 45 minute time frame, bur i mean i'll be easy on it.. so 120-130 bpm.. then, later on that day.. hell it would roughly be about 10 hours later and 5 meals later (plenty of replenishment time.. and .. do my workout (whichever it may be for that day..) and sip on my BCAA drink the B,D,A style.. but more or less focusing on the during.. so.. consuming 10g's.. Before would be 2.5.. during 5.. and after 2.5 .. but do as you suggest, immediately finish my workout routine, up that incline to 8.0 and do 3.0-3.2 mph just for that 20 min window ...

So it would be elliptical at a medium pace 130-135bpm bright and early... eat eat eat eat eat.. train.. slam it out to the maximum.. then proceed to do 20 minutes as you suggest in that GH RELEASE TIME SLOT Window...

Currently.. this is my workout routine:

4 days per week on 1 wk.. following week is 5 days per week and consists of REP RANGE.

Power :

CHEST + TRICEPS =

6 Sets Incline Dumbbell (reps 4-6 - HEAVY)
4 sets Flat Bench (reps 4-6 - HEAVY)
2 sets Incline Flye (reps 8-12 - STRICT, Slow + Heavy)

3 sets Over Head Tricep Extension - same rep scheme
3 sets Close grip Bench Press - same rep scheme
3 sets Cable Pushdown 1 rope, 1 straight bar, 1 v-bar (Heavy - to failure)

Back + Biceps =

6 Sets One Arms Db (WOODCUTTERS) -- Same rep scheme
4 Sets Bent Over BB Row
2 Sets Pullups to failure

3 sets Bicep Cable Pose Curl(difficult to explain in words. maybe you'd understand) (Heavy - 10 reps per set)
3 sets Hammer Curls (4-6 reps Heavy)
2 Sets Preacher Curl (EZ-CURL BAR- Inner rungs)

Legs + Abs

6 Sets Squat -- Same Rep Scheme
4 Sets Leg Press
superset w/
4 sets Calf Extensions (to failure)
3 sets Leg Curls (Lying- Heavy - to failure)

5 Sets Rope Crunch ( Heavy To Failure)
5 Sets Hanging Leg Raises ( to failure )

Shoulders + Lower Back

6 Sets Seated Db Press (4-6 reps)
4 Sets Upright Row with EZ-curl Bar (6-8 reps .. slow + strict)
3 Sets of Db Raises (1 set side, 1 set front, 1 set rear) - Controlled Movements

4 Sets Back Entensions
2 Sets Stiff Legs Deads

Rep Range

Chest

3 Set Flat Bench Flye (8-12 reps decent weight)
3 Sets Incline BB Press (8-12 reps)
3 Sets Weighted Dips (10 reps)
3 Sets Pec Dec OR Cable Crossover (12-15 reps)

Back

3 Sets Lat Pulldowns (same rep scheme as Chest)
3 Sets Low Cable Row
3 sets Bent Over Dumbbell Rows
3 Sets DB Pullovers s/s w/ Straight Arm Pressdowns (10 reps per exercise)

Legs

3 Sets Front Squat (10-12 reps)
3 Sets Leg Extension (12-15 reps)
3 Sets Leg Curl (12-15 reps)
3 Sets DB Lunges(10 reps Each Leg)
4 Sets Seated Calf Raise (25 reps)
4 sets Standing Db Calf Raise (15-20reps)

Arms

Bi's

3 sets Standing BB Curl (10-12reps)
3 Sets Seated Alternating DB Curls (10 reps)
3 Sets Cable Rope Curls (12-15 reps)

Tri's

3 Sets One Arm Cable Pressdown (15 reps)
3 Sets Skull Crushers (10-12 reps)
3 sets Tricep Db Kickbacks (10-12 reps)

Shoulders + Abs

3 Sets BB Military Press (10 reps)
3 Javorek db complex (Side,Front,Rear,V-raises) 10 reps of each per se
3 Sets BB Shoulder Shrugs (10reps)
3 Sets DB Shrugs (12-15 reps)

5 sets Crunches on Decline Bench (to failure)
3 Sets of Hanging Knee Raises (to failure)
2 Sets of Db Side Bends (15 reps per side)

It's really working out GREAT, I mean I have gotten SUPER SUPER Strong in the past 3 weeks on this program.. breaking every single plateau I have ever had...

And supplements aren't anything spectacular..

Omega 3 - 5000mgs per day
Liv- 52 - 3 tabs per day
Vitamin C - 2000iu's per day
N-Acetyl-Cysteine - 2g's per day
CLA - 1g per day
BCAA- 10g's per day on Training days.. 5g's on NON-Training days


and the cycle isn't even that LARGE...

1.5ml's of Sustaplex EOD
2.5ml's of NPP EOD
75mgs of Proviron ED
250mcgs of Cbergoline E3D
75mcgs of GHRP-2 x 4 times per day
150mcgs of modGRF(1-29) 1 time a day (Pre-bed)

Now, obviously.. things will be getting switched around in the coming weeks.. I'll stay on the Test.. but take a break from the 19-nor for a 4 wk period upon which I will add in my favorite ever.. TRENBOLONE HEX !!

It will look pretty the same.. except..

100mgs ED of Prop
75mgs ED of Tren HEX + 80mgs ED of Tren Ace for 20 days *kickstart*
250mgs EOD of Test E
75mgs ED of Proviron
25mcgs of T3 ED *Basic Thyroid replacement dose*
500mcgs of Cabergoline E3D

Now here's where things might get funky.. I am actually thinking of running an ORAL !! Lol.. I rarely ever run an oral.. *aside from Proviron but that's a given*
But, if things go the way I want them too.. I might fore-go the oral to run the beloved 1-test-cyp !! Nothing Huge.. just a minor 400mgs per week..

Ok, I am rambling here.. LOL... Oh well.. My Thread.. My Ramble I guess...

The Peptides will be switched too.. well not switched but differentiated ...

Ghrp-2 at 75mcgs x 4 times per day
GH at 1.5iu's x 4 times per day
modGRF(1-29)at 200mcgs (pre-bed)
pegMGF = 100mcgs bi-lat into muscle trained Pre-bed (training days only) using micro dosing techniques..
Insulin - 10iu's PWO


Now, a lot of you will be saying WHOA MAN, That's a lot of stuff.. MORE ISN'T BETTER..

Ok I agree with you to an extent.. but in this case.. each and every peptide does something different.. You got a GHRP and GHRH and Pulsation of Growth Hormone itself.. PLUS pegMGF is just a fancy name for IGF-1Ec .. so each Chain of Proteins (peptides) has a different action and reaction on the cells in particular..

You look it this way.. You have FOOD.. ok.. Proteins, Carbohydrates, and Fats. You can't just base a diet with just Carbs and Fats.. or Fats alone.. or Protein alone.. You need it all.. Same thing applies to this area of usage.. YES you can get by on just ONE of them.. but you don't get full benefits of it if you don't use it all.. MGF can be classified as like adding WHEY protein to a diet.. NOT NEEDED but is a nice addition.. But basically. Your GHRP,GHRH,GH are essentially your Pro,Carb,Fat. See what I AM Saying..

But the most major Fundamental Component of this ALL is the Insulin.. we can consider INSULIN.. as OXYGEN .. that's how important it is..

So all in all.. where most people will look at this and be like WTF MAN.. you are an IDIOT you are running WAAAY Too much, maybe they should take the time and READ why I am doing this, and what exactly each one does..

Lol, it's funny how I have all this knowledge on everything like this but I totally MESS THE HELL OUT OF MY DIET !!

:bber:
 
haha i feel you on the mess of a diet lol im still learning slowly. See im completely lost half the time when we start talking about alot of different peptides lol.
I think everything sounds awesome man. Once you start this plan weigh yourself quite a bit i know alot of people say that it doesnt matter what the scale says etc. In this case i believe it does. Monitor it very closely so you can tell if your gaining losing maintaining etc. If you can get b/f test quite often thats better too then youc an really dial it in. Depending on your metabolism you may find that 45 plus the extra 20 of cardio is a bit too much for me it wouldnt be because i can put on size great but my metabolism for burning fat is kinda like a snail lol.
If the scale starts going down then up the cals just a bit in equal portions of macronutrients if at all possible, to keep them the same but add in cals. If the scale is staying steady then the next week get your bodyfat done again. You may find your down .5% or something in that case hell your gaining LBM which is the ultimate goal. It is a bit slower process like i said but it can be done. Although in the end you wont be as big dimension wise but technically you will be about the same amount of weight gained lbm wise.
Keep in mind im not a national level competitor by any means this is all just by my trial and error, and what i find works for me. This is the route im gonna have to end up taking as well, i wanna just bulk my ass off and eat everything in site like i used too but, i cant let my b/f get out of control so my diet will continue to be pretty strict year round now. With the exception of a couple more added in cheat meals for bulking.
 
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