I am not talking about effects on the testicals, liver or kidneys. I am talking about effects on hormone and enzyme levels, if you constantly stay on a high dosage estrogen, progesterone, SHBG will all get out of whack and you will no longer beable to make gains and can actually loose them. I am not saying it cant be done correctly, but I dont know enough about how to do it correctly and I dont know where to find information on staying on mega doses of steroids indefinatly.
For those who never come off...
- Thread starter jaywooly
- Start date
organdoner
New member
i've never used hcg/clomid. test (which i hate) gives me nut shrinkage you wouldn't believe but less when using prop so i don't use it and i have never had problems with my sex drive even with running deca alone and tren alone. i have run everything alone except winny. i often say. cycle with compounds that don't cause you problems. deca (sweats), dbol (tricep acne), eq (itchy back), test (shrinkage) are compounds i try not to use. eliminate what gives negative sides. what you can/can't, should/ shouldn't use are outdates profiles. it's not complicated. a good bridge should be planned out but i never have had a plan. i just use whatever is laying around which i wouldn't recommend. it's irresponsible cycleing but it works for me and i look like a pro (except for legs) lol. eliminate problem causing compounds. it puts the fun back into a cycle. a better example. sweets give me the runs. alcahol makes me an asshole. razors give me nasty bumps so i stay away from these things. same with gear. take time from your next cycle to experiment with what is more user friendly concerning gear.
Q
QueenofDamned
Guest
brew said:
um....i think the "correct" term is "pussy" not "wimp".....
maybe you should visit my dungeon and i will show you what a wimp is:satan:
Prisoner#22
New member
What I would add to this is that a regular routine of hcg injections while on for us men is a must. I have found that just 250 iu per week is enough to keep good testicular size and function. I have just come off a cycle - I was pretty much on since last september. I basically fluctuated from a building cycle to a maintainance cycle. Drugs I used for maintanence were either test and deca, or test and primo. At the end of my 'season' I gradually weaned myself off by steadily decreasing the dose of my drugs while increasing the frequency of hcg injections to ed. I also took femara. I slowly decreased the amount of my daily hcg injection from 500iu all the way to 50 iu. then off. I now have started taking clomid and nolvadex. So far my sex drive is fine but I have lost some size and some strength in the gym, which is to be expected since my body is pretty beat up from 6 or 7 months of contest prep. This will be my off season. For the first little while I will only be going to the gym 3-4 times per week and doing short high intesity - low volume workouts. I will have a chance for my joints to settle down, and my body to normalize itself. I expect to be off for about five or six months, then go back on to train for the provincials and nationals next yr. The trouble with being 'on' all the time is that after a while you don't grow any more - your progress becomes like that of when you were natural. You need to go off, let your receptors 'freshen' up and then hit it again. I like to wait untill my natural training is going well - I am pumped and having good workouts in the gym - making good gains - once I have this momentum, and my diet is just right, thats when I hit it hard again.
It kinda' amazes me this many of you are running constantly. Hey good luck. What are some of your basal blood pressure measurements. Prop really fouled me up. Jacked my bp up nearly 35-50 points on top and about 3 diastolic. If I ever run anything again I may just run some deca with a little enan and see what happens. The blood pressure thing scared the mess outta' me. I threw about 300 bucks worth of gear and 100 worth of anti es and clomid away. Not to mention some hcg too. Ill never run vet grade I can assure you of that. Good luck in your pursuits guys.
Q
QueenofDamned
Guest
jtunderdog said:
i get regular check ups from my GP. it's all good. the only time my BP has gone up from gear use is with EQ, and i won't run it again anyways, i don't like it.
your body is constantly producing receptor sites from training and steroid use, once you are a bit older (im 36) there is NO harm in staying on year round.......
men AND women around my age (and older) are put on HRT all the time, and they don't come off.....as you get older, your natural hormone production slows down.
for women, it's better to use testosterone to bring up natural estrogen levels than a "synthetic" estrogen. testosterone doesn't cause cancer/strokes....synthetic estrogen is PROVEN to cause these things....
F
Flexmaster
Guest
Prisoner#22 said:
i agree and disagree. i agree that by taking hcg while on helps you stay somewhat normal, this is what i do and it makes me feel great. BUT, i disagree that by staying on year round your gains will stop. all pro's stay on year round, not to mention tons of guys on the boards. as long as your nutrition is good, you should be able to make gains. i imagine that you would agree with me that it's diet, not aas that really makes you grow, aas just speeds it up. i'm about to start bridging now, which like presser and jay said, is really the only way to put on serious mass. by cycling your aas all the time, it's like taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. halfway through your cycle your trying to gain what you lost after your last cycle. i don't think staying on year round is for eveyone though.
Last edited:
Fuck just erased everything I wrote......oh well.....
I stay on about 400mg of test year round minimum just for maintenance. Most pro's do the some thing, the bigger they are the more the need just to maintain and not loose anything.
If you are going to stay on year round, Please go see a doctor.... Its not that big of a deal. get your blood work done, keep your test level somewhere near the high end of normal, and watch your BP and cholesterol... don’t forget to control your estrogen as well.... Its pretty easy these days....
Below is some info to help you know what kind of dose will give you what blood levels.... the high end of normal for a teenager is 1200.....
If you keep your test levels at 1200 year round for a few years you will continue to grow for those two years just like you did when you where young.....
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men
Shalender Bhasin1, Linda Woodhouse1, Richard Casaburi3, Atam B. Singh1, Dimple Bhasin3, Nancy Berman3, Xianghong Chen4, Kevin E. Yarasheski4, Lynne Magliano2, Connie Dzekov1, Jeanne Dzekov1, Rachelle Bross3, Jeffrey Phillips3, Indrani Sinha-Hikim1, Ruoquing Shen1, and Thomas W. Storer2
1 Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles 90059; 2 Laboratory for Exercise Sciences, El Camino College, and 3 Harbor-University of California Los Angeles Medical Center, Torrance, California 90502; and 4 Biomedical Mass Spectrometric Research Resource, Department of Internal Medicine, Washington University, School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
sexual function; testosterone effects on muscle; cognitive function; plasma lipids; prostate-specific antigen; testosterone effects on insulin-like growth factor I; testosterone and hemoglobin
I stay on about 400mg of test year round minimum just for maintenance. Most pro's do the some thing, the bigger they are the more the need just to maintain and not loose anything.
If you are going to stay on year round, Please go see a doctor.... Its not that big of a deal. get your blood work done, keep your test level somewhere near the high end of normal, and watch your BP and cholesterol... don’t forget to control your estrogen as well.... Its pretty easy these days....
Below is some info to help you know what kind of dose will give you what blood levels.... the high end of normal for a teenager is 1200.....
If you keep your test levels at 1200 year round for a few years you will continue to grow for those two years just like you did when you where young.....
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men
Shalender Bhasin1, Linda Woodhouse1, Richard Casaburi3, Atam B. Singh1, Dimple Bhasin3, Nancy Berman3, Xianghong Chen4, Kevin E. Yarasheski4, Lynne Magliano2, Connie Dzekov1, Jeanne Dzekov1, Rachelle Bross3, Jeffrey Phillips3, Indrani Sinha-Hikim1, Ruoquing Shen1, and Thomas W. Storer2
1 Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles 90059; 2 Laboratory for Exercise Sciences, El Camino College, and 3 Harbor-University of California Los Angeles Medical Center, Torrance, California 90502; and 4 Biomedical Mass Spectrometric Research Resource, Department of Internal Medicine, Washington University, School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri 63110
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.
sexual function; testosterone effects on muscle; cognitive function; plasma lipids; prostate-specific antigen; testosterone effects on insulin-like growth factor I; testosterone and hemoglobin
EatingMachine
New member
I'm new to staying on for extended periods, but, this is what I have found so far.
I have had to increase my test doses significantly to continue growning.
Every 6-8 weeks I am having to hit my body with hcg and nova to get things somewhat back to normal. The higher my doses get the more often I seem to need this.
I don't think that I will come off for a while unless work/ travel forces me to, because the gains are much better than before.
I have had to increase my test doses significantly to continue growning.
Every 6-8 weeks I am having to hit my body with hcg and nova to get things somewhat back to normal. The higher my doses get the more often I seem to need this.
I don't think that I will come off for a while unless work/ travel forces me to, because the gains are much better than before.
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