Just some of my thoughts on AAS usage ...

[Chris250]

Just some thoughts I will put together, and other member's can add to it...Remember these are my opinions, and my opinions only...I have been in the game for almost 20 years, and over that time I have developed my own way of cycling or offseason, or precontest cycles...over the years, it has changed (my idea's ect) but some thoughts are the same as the day I started this crazy sport...

1. I really, really believe that you need to work into a dose...What I mean by this, is most people (younger guys, more now than back in the day) start out to high of a dose (example test cyp or sust, ect) Alot of younger guys, will read that joe blow started his first cycle of test at 500mg per week, and added in tren ect, ect...Well what I think is wrong with this is, that he lost out growth with 200-300mg dose...I mean, come on guys, you dont think you can gain off of 300mg of test per week, the first time out....Hell, I would bet if I took anyone (and yes I mean anyone) I could make them gain, 15-20lbs (solid weight) in a good 10-12 week cycle of test (first time user) at 250mg per week...(with my eating, and training program) and I would bet Nuk, or Dude, or anyone of the vets would totally agree with me...Cause they could do it to there client to....What to take out of this - Slowly raise your doses over time..If your not gaining, then look at youre diet (90% of the time this is the problem) and the training program, along with your lifestyle...(rest, work,ect) My personal feeling is that the first 3-5 years of using AAS, you should be able to get away with using a dose of 200-300mg test (1-2 second cycle, or first year of using), 400-500mg (3-5 cycle, second to 3rd or even 4th year) and then work up to 600-750mg test (6 cycle or even longer, 4-5th year of using)...I started using at 18 (yes to young) and didnt hit a gram of test until I was 27-28 years old..I had a good 9-10 years of use during that time, and many, many cycles ....

2. Dont make these cycle's like some lab experment....What I mean is that these complicated cycle's or just that complicated...Joe Blow said, that so and so is doing a fast acting test, with a long acting test, with some deca, and eq...Cause he said there is some type of this effect with that effect...and he read on the net that Joe Big Gun's does this cycle, and he gained 25lbs of pure muscle in 8 weeks...LOL !!! (oh and I forgot about all the peptides he did to..LOL) You know what I say, if the shit is real, then its gonna work...Dont worry if you dont have this or that..Hell, guys get so worked up if they dont have tren or winny for a show...and they think that will make a difference...LOL !!! Trust me, no drug in the world is gonna be the deal breaker for the show...Trust me, I have tried almost everything once..and the simple precontest cycle alwayes worked the best for me..same for the offseason..simple is best or the KISS principle...(keep it simple stupid)...You want a good offseason cycle ? ok here is one...

1-10/12 test cyp, enth, or sust (dose depends on person)
1-10/12 deca or eq (again dose is base on level of usage)
1-10/12 arimadex .5 mg EOD or 2-3 a week (depends on person)
1-10/12 HGH, IGF (do it if you can afford it, if not no big deal) this compound is for more experiance competor's (the HGH) IGF is a great site enhancement compound...If you apply it to your bis or tri's they will grow and get fuller...both peptides are good additions to any cycle....but again, not going to make or break ya....

start PCT after the 12th to 14th week...clomid, novadex, hcg, ect (let the test, deca, eq or whatever be lower when you start your PCT, otherwise your kinda wasting it)

some people will add in a oral the first 4-6 weeks, to get gain going..some people will add in fast acting test (the sust, has prop in it) but either isnt going to make or break ya...Just be consistant with your training, and eating...the gains will come...just keep at it...

I will add more as I come to think if them...Please feel free to add to this or ask questions....

 

[Presser]

Good post bro not only for first timers, but also to remind the guys who been at it a year or so (which aint long either that they can also keep it simple!

Hell I grew like a weed of of Test Enanthate made by Brovel Company and Only used 200 mgs a week one shot every Monday and I put Crazy weight on, and I did this for years and years only using a little test per week. I didnt get into Stacking compounds until I was ready to get on stage.

Anyhow nice read and reminder!

 

[The Dude]

I couldn't agree more with everything above! My first time was Brovel test at 200mg a week. I gained over 20lbs and kept near all of it. I added in a little Deca at 200mg a week a year or two down the road and this was my "cycle" for almost 8 years!! It takes TIME not dosage or a new drug to build a physique. Awesome post Chris.

 

[The Dude]

I also think that this should be made VERY CLEAR. High doses fucking suck!! You feel like shit and it causes immediate undesirable effects on BP leading to headaches, nose bleeds, and flu like symptoms. I'm sure Chris will agree with me on this. I am trying to come up with the right combo so I can gain consistantly on no more than 300mg of test. Enjoy the low doses as long as possible and use food as your main anabolic.

 

[daveeyx]

Good post bro not only for first timers, but also to remind the guys who been at it a year or so (which aint long either that they can also keep it simple!

Hell I grew like a weed of of Test Enanthate made by Brovel Company and Only used 200 mgs a week one shot every Monday and I put Crazy weight on, and I did this for years and years only using a little test per week. I didnt get into Stacking compounds until I was ready to get on stage.

Anyhow nice read and reminder!

Interesting Presser. How old were you at that time? I may consider doing the same and avoiding the tren and its nasty sides.

 

[MMX2]

Interesting Presser. How old were you at that time? I may consider doing the same and avoiding the tren and its nasty sides.

On the topic of sides- sides happen mostly due to dosage or application issues.
Nasty sides can be seen with almost all non-OTC supplements.

 

[nuknuk]

Good post.

 

[nuknuk]

I couldn't agree more with everything above! My first time was Brovel test at 200mg a week. I gained over 20lbs and kept near all of it. I added in a little Deca at 200mg a week a year or two down the road and this was my "cycle" for almost 8 years!! It takes TIME not dosage or a new drug to build a physique. Awesome post Chris.

Even I have had to learn this recently.

 

[Chris250]

precontest cycle's ? what to use ?

ok here is another one, that gets me going...Some guys think that if they are going to do a show...that they need certain AAS...one's that dont aromatise into estrogen or anabolics instead of androgen's that aromatise...So guys will use test, deca, anadrol in the offseason...grow huge, get strong...then come contest time...they do winny V, primo and masteron or tren ace, ect, ect..Thinking that these drugs will be the holy grail to getting ripped for the show...Ok, that is all fine and dandy...but guys (for you younger newbie's) that isnt the cause at all...Maybe, back in the day. early 90's or 80's you needed to do winny V and primo, masteron...the final 4 weeks..but with today's anti-estrogen...Honestly you dont have to worry about it...You could run 750-10000mg of just staight test sust. with .5 to 1 mg of armiadex (EOD or ED/ depending on the person again) and come in ripped to the bone...Honestly, it's true..and i have seen it done...Will doing Winny V, Masteron, or Tren A or any of the normal supposed precontest drugs help with your look (density, hardness)...Well maybe, to a small degree...Yes, masteron gives you a harder, grainy look...but hell guys your not doing nationals, or the mr. o ... your doing the damn state show, or city regional level show...at that level the only thing that matter's is your diet, traininig, and cardio...(and your mindset, the one thing that people forget about) you should be able to win your state show or a regional level show on less than a total of 1000mg of anabolics in your body...Honestly, if you cant...then maybe you should rethink about what your doing to your body....This sport is rough, and can eat you up in a heartbeat...I love bodybuildy, trust me I do...Its what made me, be me...Im a true, hardcore, bodybuilder...But, if you can win a show clean or almost clean..then maybe you should just do it for fun, and not abuse your body...

ok so what do I recommend for precontest...it would look something like this..no again remember its not set in stone, and not getting one of these compounds or two wont make or break ya...remember diet, cardio and training is whats going to make you come in at 4% bodyfat..not drugs...

12 weeks to 8 weeks

long acting test (sust, cyp, enth) -250mg to 750mg per week

deca or eq (whatever you like better) - 200-600mg per week

oral like d ball or anadrol (some people like an oral for strengh, but again it wont make or break ya) - 25mg to 50mg per day

arimadex or letro - doses depend on person...but for arimadex, normal dose would be .5 mg EOD...

(T3/clen - some people use this everytime...some people need to use them other dont. I personally use some T3, for my shows as it speeds up my metabolism and just seems to make everything else work a tad better...T3 doses for most people would be 25mcg ED to 75mcg ED/ Clen is something that either work for ya or dont...some people will cycle this on a 2 week on and 2 week off cycle...or a 2 day on 2 day off cycle....normal doses is anywhere from 20mcg's per day all the way up to 100mcg per day...Now I will say this..if you have to use more than 80-100mcg's of clen per day to get affects, then its either underdoses or your body has come accustomed to this product and you need to clean it out, before using it again)

HGH - is for more advance people who are competing at the Jr.National level or above...Personally I think its worth the money, but if you dont have the coin to get it...then no biggie) noraml doses is 2-4 iu's for fat burning, but higher doses are believed to help with growth and be anti catabolic, doses for that would be 8 iu's and above....

final 8 weeks ---

fast acting test (test prop or suspension) - doses would be 100-200mg EOD

Tren Ace - doses would be 50mg to 100mg EOD (although I have been hearing alot of guys using much more as of late...Internet and being more avaliable is the reason...I dont argree on this, as i believe 75mg EOD is plenty...)

Winny V oral or inj. - oral doses, would be 25-50mg ED, or inj. would be 50mg to 100mg EOD or ED...Im not big fan of winny V (inj. more than the oral) I think it is painful to inj. and even with the oral, my joints ache on it..and I dont feel to hot on it...but at 4 weeks out Im not training as heavy...so at that point it doenst matter as much...

Other products that could help, but again it doesnt matter - proviron, masteron (I do believe in that it gives the muscle's a grainy look), primo depot, or ace version...anavar, some people like anadrol the final 2 weeks...cytradren if you can find it...it will dry you out like neve before..but feel like hell on it...diuretic's/ like adactone, dyazide, ect...

T3/ Clen combo- listed above...doses at this point could get pretty high..again watch out for catabolism as T3 in higher doses will eat you up....

HGH - for advance competor's...most cut it out at 1 week to 2 weeks out...

there is more, let me think some more...and vet guys, add in whatever you think is correct

 

[irish2003]

great posts chris.......i've been on nonstop for the last 2 years (of which i've made more gains than i did cycling on and off all the previous years), but now that i'm in my late 30's priorities in life are coming to the forefront more frequently and making me reconsider my approach (i'm never going to make money as a competitor)......i've told my girlfriend when my bodybuilding bug is no longer in me, then i'll go to basic trt and lift for health and maybe get back into tae kwon do or another art to get some flexiblity and wind back as i get older

 

[h8tr3d]

great posts chris.......i've been on nonstop for the last 2 years (of which i've made more gains than i did cycling on and off all the previous years), but now that i'm in my late 30's priorities in life are coming to the forefront more frequently and making me reconsider my approach (i'm never going to make money as a competitor)......i've told my girlfriend when my bodybuilding bug is no longer in me, then i'll go to basic trt and lift for health and maybe get back into tae kwon do or another art to get some flexiblity and wind back as i get older

I agree with everything in your post, and can relate! I think a problem with people pushing doses is, they think they have a chance at the pro's, when realistically they dont at all, but they dont want to accept it. Even good to top amatuer's dont make shit for a living trying to get to the top. What i like about BB is you get to compete against YOURSELF. And thats why i do it..... to make myself look better and better in the mirror each season, not to ever step on stage.

 

[Chris250]

I agree with everything in your post, and can relate! I think a problem with people pushing doses is, they think they have a chance at the pro's, when realistically they dont at all, but they dont want to accept it. Even good to top amatuer's dont make shit for a living trying to get to the top. What i like about BB is you get to compete against YOURSELF. And thats why i do it..... to make myself look better and better in the mirror each season, not to ever step on stage.

great post...this is very true...and most people think they can get huge and be a national level BB...If they push the doses up...but the truth is, if you where going to be huge, and national level... you would be able to do it on 500mg of test per week, and thats it...Its not about how much you use...its the amount of work you put into it...If the size is going to be there, it will come with smaller amounts....it just takes time ...and lots of eating and intense workouts .... :bench:

 

[big lifter]

for some reason it seems like the new craze around here is small dose cycles.. what everybody is saying in here is true, the Dude said that high doses suck, more sides and just generally can make u feel uncomfortable. and yea u can make good gains on low doses, but thats not to say that u wont make more gains on more gear..
if ur happy with decent gains and prefer to be feeling better then stick with modest dose cycles, but realisticly, when you see guys like kai and ronnie when he was peaking, these guys arent putting on 30-40lbs an offseason with 500mg test.. obviously more gear= more gains, its just up to the individual as to whats more important to them.. for these guys and guys who are seriously wanting to pack on the size then high doses are a must.
low dose single compound cycles can only take you so far, and bodybuilding is a game of time, your not going to run cycles with less than 1g of gear untill your close to you 30's or you have just cheated yourself out of years of better growth by not pushing the envelope. for people wanting to compete at a serious level or even guys who just want to push themselves as far as they can, its the reality that stacking many compounds not just AAS but peptides HGH slin T3 and more ancillary drugs than you could remember is a bare minimum.

aside from all that, i too recommend guys to start there first few cycles with at most 500mg of test and bring in the orals at cycle number 2 then start stacking after that where you see fit. there is no need for the huge first timer cycles that ive seen guys running in person. because they are also literally cheating themselves out of gains that could be made at very low doses.

 

[h8tr3d]

for some reason it seems like the new craze around here is small dose cycles.. what everybody is saying in here is true, the Dude said that high doses suck, more sides and just generally can make u feel uncomfortable. and yea u can make good gains on low doses, but thats not to say that u wont make more gains on more gear..
if ur happy with decent gains and prefer to be feeling better then stick with modest dose cycles, but realisticly, when you see guys like kai and ronnie when he was peaking, these guys arent putting on 30-40lbs an offseason with 500mg test.. obviously more gear= more gains, its just up to the individual as to whats more important to them.. for these guys and guys who are seriously wanting to pack on the size then high doses are a must.
low dose single compound cycles can only take you so far, and bodybuilding is a game of time, your not going to run cycles with less than 1g of gear untill your close to you 30's or you have just cheated yourself out of years of better growth by not pushing the envelope. for people wanting to compete at a serious level or even guys who just want to push themselves as far as they can, its the reality that stacking many compounds not just AAS but peptides HGH slin T3 and more ancillary drugs than you could remember is a bare minimum.

aside from all that, i too recommend guys to start there first few cycles with at most 500mg of test and bring in the orals at cycle number 2 then start stacking after that where you see fit. there is no need for the huge first timer cycles that ive seen guys running in person. because they are also literally cheating themselves out of gains that could be made at very low doses.

another great, REALISTIC post!

 

[Chris250]

for some reason it seems like the new craze around here is small dose cycles.. what everybody is saying in here is true, the Dude said that high doses suck, more sides and just generally can make u feel uncomfortable. and yea u can make good gains on low doses, but thats not to say that u wont make more gains on more gear..
if ur happy with decent gains and prefer to be feeling better then stick with modest dose cycles, but realisticly, when you see guys like kai and ronnie when he was peaking, these guys arent putting on 30-40lbs an offseason with 500mg test.. obviously more gear= more gains, its just up to the individual as to whats more important to them.. for these guys and guys who are seriously wanting to pack on the size then high doses are a must.
low dose single compound cycles can only take you so far, and bodybuilding is a game of time, your not going to run cycles with less than 1g of gear untill your close to you 30's or you have just cheated yourself out of years of better growth by not pushing the envelope. for people wanting to compete at a serious level or even guys who just want to push themselves as far as they can, its the reality that stacking many compounds not just AAS but peptides HGH slin T3 and more ancillary drugs than you could remember is a bare minimum.

aside from all that, i too recommend guys to start there first few cycles with at most 500mg of test and bring in the orals at cycle number 2 then start stacking after that where you see fit. there is no need for the huge first timer cycles that ive seen guys running in person. because they are also literally cheating themselves out of gains that could be made at very low doses.

Totally agree with ya..yeah, to be a huge pro and a good one at that (as long you have the genetics to do it) your going to need to take it to the next level...AAS, is only going to get you so far...then HGH, IGF, peptide's, anti E's, ect, ect...the list goes on and on...