plus the way tren affects me Im gald I didnt run it til a few cycles in. I get real moody and irritable on tren. Test is fine, everything is fine, but tren makes me one moody bitch, so after a few cycles and you know how your body reacts...you know its the tren doing it and knowing that helped me calm myslef down alot. I would stick with something simple like a dbol test for the guy that wants mass, and a winny test for the guy who wants to harden up. diet will be key for reaching whatever goal they want to reach, so that needs to be relayed to them